tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post1458766733083453749..comments2024-03-28T20:50:27.862-04:00Comments on EV Grieve: 7-Eleven fallout: East Village groups propose resolution 'to restrict corporate formula stores'Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-7030054231995847282013-03-09T04:28:24.408-05:002013-03-09T04:28:24.408-05:00shmnyc: Argument ad hominem is always irrelevant a...shmnyc: Argument ad hominem is always irrelevant and <br />often a sign of substance gone dry. I'm pretty sure that's not <br />your intent, so let's stick to substance. Argument from <br />authority is equally irrelevant and worse than empty since <br />authorities err. So let's not go there either. I welcome <br />further discussion, or we can shake hands and wait <br />for another day. Either way, I look forward to it.<br /><br />One comment: white flight is not created by the same force <br />as redevelopment. Gentrification is opportunistic, but just <br />because it overcomes its obstacles or takes advantage of the<br />consequences of pauses or resistance in its course, <br />shouldn't mean that those obstacles, pauses or <br />resistance are themselves motivated by gentrification. <br />That's either way too Hegelian or way too conspiratorial.robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07464179798705084025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-73759733901695881572013-03-08T16:21:54.451-05:002013-03-08T16:21:54.451-05:00Rob,
I was going to respond to what you wrote to ...Rob,<br /><br />I was going to respond to what you wrote to me and to Anonymous at 5:40pm, but reading through your comments I have to wonder, have you read anything at all on gentrification? I don't mean to be insulting, but some of the things you write ("White flight will prevent [gentrification] entirely. Immigration (traditional low-income immigration) will prevent it as long as the immigration continues.") makes me wonder.shmnychttp://wp.me/p35XC3-wKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-81970385206915226842013-03-07T22:15:57.035-05:002013-03-07T22:15:57.035-05:00Opposing 7-Elevens where they are not needed is no...Opposing 7-Elevens where they are not needed is now "hating America?" Really?! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-46536754200448346062013-03-07T17:22:21.685-05:002013-03-07T17:22:21.685-05:00Everyone who refers to New York as "my city&q...Everyone who refers to New York as "my city" needs to be roundly slapped. You'll be dead in 50 years, no one will ever have heard of you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-32826810777613793152013-03-07T10:55:28.747-05:002013-03-07T10:55:28.747-05:00I am so sick of the 99%ers and hippies constantly ...I am so sick of the 99%ers and hippies constantly bashing free markets. If you can't afford Manhattan, get the hell out of Manhattan! Why should progress be stymied because you want things to be cheaper?<br /><br />Guess what? If rents go up, so do property values! But you wouldn't care since you rent a stabilised apartment (another dated, ridiculous law that's still benefiting people that can't afford to live where they live).<br /><br />I agree with the sane people above: chain stores are no different than bodegas except for the fact that they employ more people, are cleaner (inside & out), probably pay more in taxes, and offer cheaper prices for goods because they have economies of scale.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I love my local bodega. But I also love my Duane Reade which is 1 block farther. Duane Reade has FAR more product that I'm interested in. So it provides a great service and great products to local residents. Why is that a problem?<br /><br />Why do you all hate America?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-58865270889126122422013-03-07T09:58:00.577-05:002013-03-07T09:58:00.577-05:001 Kmart is not equal to 100+ 7-Elevens. 1 Kmart is not equal to 100+ 7-Elevens. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-87352970152368400072013-03-07T09:51:50.660-05:002013-03-07T09:51:50.660-05:00B.C.: "Supply" is not "supplier.&qu...B.C.: "Supply" is not "supplier." Although axioms are definitional, <br />not empirical, you are right, restricting supply invariably raises <br />prices (given constant demand). But restricting suppliers has <br />no such invariant function. So consider the consequence <br />of corporate expansion: it restricts suppliers. A <br />restrcition on corporate stores will encourage greater <br />variety of suppliers. Competition among suppliers is one <br />way to drive prices down.robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07464179798705084025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-88772232385916652652013-03-07T02:48:16.390-05:002013-03-07T02:48:16.390-05:00@ 5:42 -- Gentrification responds to local public ...@ 5:42 -- Gentrification responds to local public policy <br />and to immigration pressures and policy. To look only <br />at neoliberal trends in capital is far too general. <br /><br />For example, rent stabilization and control curb gentrification. <br />White flight will prevent it entirely. Immigration <br />(traditional low-iincome immigrantion) will prevent <br />it as long as the immigration continues. <br /><br />On the other hand, zoning alone will not prevent <br />gentrification. However, upzoning can open the floodgates <br />of gentrification in a tight housing market like NYC <br />(but not Detroits). Look <br />at Williamsburg. It was very slowly gentrifying until the <br />rezoning, when it was suddenly transformed wholesale <br />in a matter of a few years. <br /><br />So the broad corporate trends are mediated by a variety <br />of influences, and no one of them can account for all <br />changes in the urban landscape. That's hopeful: we can <br />deal with global capital at the local level, but many <br />of our current policies are misguided and antiquated. <br />On the other hand, we can't predict all the consequences of <br />any public policy. We can, however, look at historical <br />repetitions in larger trends, like the trend toward <br />monopolization, and recognize where the greatest danger of <br />losing control of the future. And that implies to me that <br />corporates have to be resisted, regulated or even broken up.robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07464179798705084025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-64750848951870139262013-03-07T02:23:22.247-05:002013-03-07T02:23:22.247-05:00shmnyc: Yes, that is exactly how "your 'f...shmnyc: Yes, that is exactly how "your 'free market' <br />works." It inclines always away from the "free" choice <br />in demand and away from the "free" proliferation of <br />supply. The words "the free market" hides that ambiguity <br />and glosses over the complexity of markets that those <br />mergers themselves create, so you find giant global <br />markets ranging over different kinds of capital, <br />different kinds of laws and regulations, different <br />kinds of market strategies. <br /><br />The relation of local real estate to global accumulation <br />is a broad generalization that is appropriate to a <br />broad textbook analysis of borad neoliberal trends, not <br />to facts on the street where "the free market" of supply <br />and demand still holds. So you're mixing apples and <br />oranges: the broad trend holds where there are no <br />restrictions, but if the market is restricted, and the <br />supply curtailed, the rent demand will decline. This <br />is empirical: the landlord would have installed a bar <br />in the 11&A location, but the liquor licensing <br />prohibited it, so he settled for second best, a giant <br />corporate franchise. If corporate stores were restricted, <br />the landlord would have to seek the next best option. <br />Landlords have been holding out for the highest rents <br />responding to that global accumulation. The <br />goal in NO 7-Eleven is to rob the landlord of that connection <br />to that accumulative consolidation. <br /><br />To say that 7-Eleven provides a better labor option <br />than local stores is to endorse the Walmartization of the <br />market. That's a rhetorical swipe, but consider the <br />consequences of Walmart. Leverage is far too limited. <br />There are labor challenges in the local free market, <br />there's no question about it, and the replacement of <br />corporate stores will not prevent gentrification. No <br />7-Eleven is not a panacea. But it will lower commercial <br />rents and encourage variety and competition which leads <br />to lower prices as well. By contrast, the giant <br />corporation, once it has strangled the competition -- <br />and that is the strategy -- turns into a kind of <br />rent-taker, since there are no more options. Consider the <br />trajectory of mergers ten or fifteen years from now, <br />when nearly all low end stores are corporate and <br />all individual entrepreneurs are in the luxury economy. <br /><br />No 7-Eleven is an anti-corporate campaign closer to <br />Occupy. The NO 7-Eleven goal of a zoning amendment is <br />neutral on gentrification, but it is rhetorical to <br />describe community say on land use as a "gated community" <br />effort, since Manhattan still relies on residential <br />renters. Gentrification has already succeeded in the <br />EV/LES, so I don't see what point you are making there <br />or what claims of NO 7-Eleven you are criticising. <br />But there are places outside Manhattan that haven't <br />been gentrified, and community say there might mean <br />welcoming 7-Eleven, just as there are communities in <br />the outer boroughs that welcome bars. <br /><br />Finally, the number of employees has to be counted by <br />square foot. 7-Elevens are large, some of them quite large, <br />bodegas are small, often quite small.robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07464179798705084025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-16392770889066194382013-03-07T01:51:36.014-05:002013-03-07T01:51:36.014-05:007-11 SUCKS PERIOD AND DOESN'T BELONG HERE!7-11 SUCKS PERIOD AND DOESN'T BELONG HERE! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-77978182801450470732013-03-07T01:50:30.478-05:002013-03-07T01:50:30.478-05:00I remember a decade or so ago when Kmart was comin...I remember a decade or so ago when Kmart was coming to Astor Plc. area.. the same cunty whiners put stickers with "Kmapart" and the protests where the same but guess what happened? the EV didn't really change... and today I see those same cunty whiners IN Kmart buying pampers for the 2.5 kids in their lives [ie: they grew up]<br />Now its just a new set of whiners and social media makes their whining not so much louder but just spread faster.Mark Hand The Catchmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04880357758792913275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-31220975487770398152013-03-07T01:43:57.821-05:002013-03-07T01:43:57.821-05:00Wow – I am extremely disappointed to see that thes...Wow – I am extremely disappointed to see that these types of ideas are being contemplated and proposed in this – our once-great city of human liberty and opportunity. It is misguided and unprincipled agitating like this (rooted as it is in a small minority’s parochial concerns or emotions of resentment) that is the REAL source of rising costs and diminished consumer choices in our city. It is axiomatic: if you restrict the supply of any product (including retail stores), you will get higher prices; so if it's really costs and supply options you're concerned with, then you would rightly let all that's well be left alone. But one suspects that's not the real motivation here. No less, as a real defender of Capitalism and someone who cares for Americans' individual rights (or what remain of our individual rights in a city that permits grievance-based restrictions as this to assume the force of law), I request that the individuals proposing this measure please do NOT invoke the free market when attempting to rationalize this proposal or when claiming it’s aim is to increase competition. This is naked government-enforced restrictions, quite simply. And we the free people of NYC reject such bad ideas and the gross violations of our liberties as this proposal represents, without qualification!B.C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-89108055382740625172013-03-06T18:55:19.334-05:002013-03-06T18:55:19.334-05:00Anonymous at 5:42 PM
Very good questions!
Yes, t...Anonymous at 5:42 PM<br /><br />Very good questions!<br /><br />Yes, this has been going on for the past 30+ years. It's referred to as the period of "neoliberalism". David Harvey's book "A Brief History of Neoliberalism" is a good place to start on this. And gentrification *is* a global phenomenon.<br /><br />It's quite a coincidence that you ask why some neighborhoods and not others. I started a blog recently that deals with gentrification primarily (at least for the time being), and my next post on the subject was to include this question. Briefly, I'll say that it has to do with the level of devaluation an area has experienced. Increases in rent will not occur as rapidly or profoundly in areas that are already built-up as they will in areas that are not. But they do increase.<br /><br />Over accumulation occurs when the money that has accumulated cannot be invested productively. They tendency is to reinvest in the existing company, then to grow, then to merge, etc. Eventually, however, your company will be operating at excess capacity, and investing the money into the business will not result in an increase in profits. You might try to invest in other industries, but they're all going through the same problem. This has been occurring globally since the 1970s, and has resulted in money being poured into currency speculation, art speculation, securitized debt, real estate, and each one has produced its own crisis. <br /><br />Check out the site my name links to. I'm going to try to finish my current piece and expand on what I wrote above. I should have it up tomorrow.shmnychttp://quilas.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-33275465027037483422013-03-06T17:42:46.589-05:002013-03-06T17:42:46.589-05:00shmnyc,
If rents are high because of an "ove...shmnyc,<br /><br />If rents are high because of an "over-accumulation of capital on a global scale", then why are only certain markets realizing real rent increases? Has over-accumulation of capital been an issue for the last 35 years (the amount of time the EV has seen persistent rent increases)? Or longer (the amount of time other areas of NYC have seen persistent rent increases).<br /><br /> Also, what is the proper level of accumulation of capital?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-23039166760341298252013-03-06T17:39:26.503-05:002013-03-06T17:39:26.503-05:00Despite EVG's continued attempts to educate th...Despite EVG's continued attempts to educate the pro-7-11 crowd, the "what about the franchisees" plea persists.<br /><br />I do think Shawn is onto something. Most of these comments are too quick and coordinated to be random EV residents who just happen to be reading EVG today.<br /><br />Also, free citizens partaking in a democratic system is party of the free market. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-7763326039886862812013-03-06T16:52:31.974-05:002013-03-06T16:52:31.974-05:00rob,
The natural tendency of capital is to centra...rob,<br /><br />The natural tendency of capital is to centralize and concentrate. Centralize between fewer industries, and concentrate within fewer companies in a particular industry. That's exactly how your "free market" works.<br /><br />And workers have much greater leverage with a store like 7-Eleven than they will with any bodega. <br /><br />Finally, rents are not high because of "corporate stores". They're high because of over-accumulation of capital on a global scale, and the dearth of productive investment.shmnychttp://quilas.wordpress.com/tag/gentrification-2/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-62443911836832714302013-03-06T16:16:29.272-05:002013-03-06T16:16:29.272-05:00Exsuburbinites want their familiar mileau. Beware,...Exsuburbinites want their familiar mileau. Beware, Times Square is spreading. Want a community with nothing but Target, Wendy's, CVS and 7-11? That's easy : You can find one anywhere, -- all over America. <br />Staney's coffee shop where are you???<br /><br />J. CareyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-82588866458584654582013-03-06T15:46:57.960-05:002013-03-06T15:46:57.960-05:00Anonymous at 2:04 PM,
Just to clarify a couple of...Anonymous at 2:04 PM,<br /><br />Just to clarify a couple of things: 7-Eleven employees make minimum wage, but many undocumented bodega employees make less than that. Also, 7-Eleven employs between 7 and 10 people -- bodegas employ up to 3.<br /><br />The No 7-Eleven effort is intended to advance the "gated community" aspect of the East Village, despite their protestations to the contrary. Keeping 7-Eleven out will not cause rents to decline, so the stores that come in at the higher rent will be unaffordable for many, but not for the ones who oppose 7-Eleven.shmnychttp://quilas.wordpress.com/tag/no-7-eleven/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-42053725726089681842013-03-06T15:44:35.999-05:002013-03-06T15:44:35.999-05:00Corporate stores are not locally owned or managed:...Corporate stores are not locally owned or managed: the <br />owner of the 7-Eleven on St. Mark's lives in Jersey. Corporate <br />stores are like monopolies. If corporate stores are <br />everywhere, your free choice is limited. Duane Reade has <br />over 250 stores in NYC. Walgreens, which owns Duane <br />Reade and from which it is nearly indistinguishable, <br />owns about 120 stores in Manhattan alone. That's just today. <br />Look at the decades long trend in banks There used to be <br />dozens and dozens. Most have merged. When will you <br />wake up and recognize where the "free' market is going? <br />Stick your head in the sand if you like, but when you take <br />your head out, you'lll see nothing but corporate stores that <br />you don't really want to buy from and the stores you might <br />really want to buy from will be gone. Small stores cannot <br />compete with the corporate. You don't need to be a historian <br />to understand what's happening. <br /><br />And do you think for one moment that when the corporate <br />stores have pervasive control and have garnered the labor <br />market, that labor will have leverage on them? <br /><br />And don't you understand that corporate stores can <br />pay higher rents than individual stores because the <br />corporation can subsidise the rent until the competition <br />is gone? <br /><br />DOn't you know that that's why commercial rents are <br />sky-high? Because of corporate stores. <br /><br />Wake up. WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE? <br />Doesn't anyone think anymore? Is the only thought you <br />have "don't buy there -- it's a free market." <br />THINK just a little bit. Try to find a credit union, friend. <br />There's only one in <br />EV/LES and most people in EV/LES have walk a mile to get <br />there. Why is that? Chase is on every other corner. That's <br />why, you get it? People prefer banking with a credit <br />union, but they can't f**king find one.robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07464179798705084025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-90751811956281053102013-03-06T15:42:35.306-05:002013-03-06T15:42:35.306-05:00I think CB3 will be sympathetic to the issue but t...I think CB3 will be sympathetic to the issue but the wording of the resolution may have some trouble passing. CB3 meetings are notoriously long. They are not going to want to have a meeting for every store that wants to open. The scope of store type needs to be refined. Would The Bean qualify as a chain store ? Mercadito ? How many stores would qualify as a chain ? That needs to be defined and then some sort of formula such as no more than 3 of the same chain stores in a 10 block radius - the numbers can then be debated. This way the City Council can pass a law that can go into effect. Do you really want to have CB3 regulate this as they essential do with liquor licenses - to which we all complain ? Hopefully something can be worked out and a statute approved at some point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-26568766123003928122013-03-06T15:42:02.624-05:002013-03-06T15:42:02.624-05:00LEAKED!
The 7-Eleven E.V. Grieve social media gu...LEAKED! <br /><br />The 7-Eleven E.V. Grieve social media guide! <br /><br />1. Always post as Anonymous. <br /><br />2. Always be attacking points + people. Never respond. Always attack. <br /><br />3. Shift the conversation to the franchisee! Put a face on it. <br /><br />"They're just like you"<br />"They're local"<br />"They are investing in the community"<br />"They create jobs"<br /><br />4. Tell people if they don't like it, they don't have to shop there (they're not our market anyway)<br /><br />5. Repeat, repeat, repeat. <br />Shawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15395915435209482109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-88402576207439166002013-03-06T15:11:48.299-05:002013-03-06T15:11:48.299-05:007-Eleven will attempt stay whether people shop the...7-Eleven will attempt stay whether people shop there or not because they have the deep corporate pockets to float these needless stores.<br /><br />And good luck to 7-Eleven finding a franchisee who wants this location. The opposition to it has been broadcast globally thanks to the BBC. <br /><br />Ask the guy with the two 7-Eleven franchises how much money he spends in the community. You know, the one who lives in Jersey.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-86109825710078412552013-03-06T15:10:20.051-05:002013-03-06T15:10:20.051-05:00YS!!!!! We GOT YOUR BACK!
F*CK 7-11
F*CK THESE A...YS!!!!! We GOT YOUR BACK!<br /><br />F*CK 7-11<br />F*CK THESE AWFUL CHAINS,<br />and most of all,<br />F*CK ALL YOU HATERS & TROLLS!<br /><br />Ha!<br />glammanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-11072982763797663212013-03-06T14:08:58.326-05:002013-03-06T14:08:58.326-05:00keep chains out of lower manhattan. period. I rue...keep chains out of lower manhattan. period. I rue the day my city becomes strip malls and ubiquitous chain stores - just like the rest of America. A Homogenized, boring, mess.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5694390946037511355.post-88302927133274146792013-03-06T14:04:11.783-05:002013-03-06T14:04:11.783-05:00Seriously? There is a far easier solution to this ...Seriously? There is a far easier solution to this problem. If you don't want corporate retailers in your neighborhood, don't shop at them. If no one in the neighborhood shops in them they will go out of business and other chain retailers will stay away. Also, wtf does it matter if you have "xy" bodega in that location or 7/11 there? What's really going to change if that Chase Bank is replaced by "avenue a credit union?"<br /><br />Bowery Boy, why is it that you would rather work at a local retailer instead of a 7/11? You'll likely be paid minimum wage for both, so it's not a money thing. Also the person who owns that 7/11 is probably just as local as the person who owns that bodega. Also, a 7/11 probably employs about the same number of people as a "local business" of the same size.<br /><br />Kevin you speak about the "integrity" of the village. What is this integrity? Is it the local culture, character, and people who make it their home? Or is it simply a "look" or "vibe?" I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're speaking of the people. culture and character. If this 7/11 is so damaging to the neighborhood then the locals won't shop there right? A business, even a dunkin donuts or 7/11, cannot stay in business if locals don't patronize their business. It doesn't matter how many drunk or high people wandering around at night shop there. If the people living in the neighborhood don't shop there it won't stay in business. This is especially true of places like convenience stores. Every neighborhood has one. <br /><br />So really what it comes down to is protecting the village from the invasiveness of corporate business to protect a "look" or "vibe." There's nothing wrong with this, no one wants to live in a neighborhood clogged up with Chase's and 7/11. If so I see no reason not to propose zoning rules limiting things like business hours, signage, locations. Whatever. But please, let's not make this about something it's not. The integrity of the village will be preserved far more if people would focus on preserving buildings and landmarks. And by preserving local business by shopping there. As someone who has spent as much time in the 'burbs as the city, I can tell you that a 7/11 is not going to change a neighborhood the way you think. A McDonald's? Yes. A GAP? Yes. But 7/11's go just as quickly as they come. And they don't harm any of the businesses they're not directly competing with. That small bar or restaurant you've been going to isn't going to be forced out because of high rents just because a 7/11 moved in. Nor is that florist, or used bookstore. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com