Checking in with Phil Hartman on Two Boots’ future on Avenue A — and the East Village

Photos and interview by Stacie Joy 

As we reported on Tuesday, the longtime home of East Village mainstay Two Boots Pizza — at 42 Avenue A on the NE corner of Third Street — has been listed for lease for the first time in 30 years. 

At the time, owner Phil Hartman said they were hoping to negotiate a new lease with the landlord while remaining in the neighborhood. 

With the listing now public and questions swirling about what's next for the Cajun-Italian slice spot (and its corner, which once housed the Two Boots video store and Pioneer Theater), we checked back in with Hartman yesterday afternoon for an update — and what the future might look like.

How do things stand with the landlord right now?

Talks are ongoing. I got a counteroffer yesterday, which I appreciated. At the same time, we're looking at other spaces in the neighborhood just to get a sense of comparison. I'm very emotionally tied to this spot, so we're cautiously optimistic. 

Did the listing change the tone or urgency of negotiations? 

A little. It was somewhat unexpected, and it affects the staff — you want to reassure them that things are going to be OK. But I've been doing this for 43 years. I've opened 34 businesses. Nothing really shocks me anymore.

Were you expecting the listing? 

There had been some talk, but the timing was a surprise. 

The asking rent is listed at around $22,500. Is that realistic? 

 

I'd call that aspirational. Landlords tend to be aspirational. I have a sense of what a business can do here to survive — and that number is high. 

Do you have a timeline for a decision? 

No hard deadline, but it's pressing. I'd say we'll know more in the next few weeks. 

How likely is it that you will stay at this location? 

As I said, cautiously optimistic.

If not here, would you stay in the neighborhood? 

Absolutely. Two Boots is staying in the East Village. It might be a few blocks away or right here. 

You've mentioned your ties to the neighborhood — how much does that factor in? 

A lot. I raised my kids around the corner, and now my daughter is raising her daughter here. My grandparents lived on Henry Street — we're five generations in the neighborhood. And we work with so many community groups. The Lower Eastside Girls Club alone is reason enough to stay. 

If you do stay in this space, would anything change? 

Yeah — I'd love to lean into the history. Turn this into the birthplace of Two Boots. Maybe a little museum feel, a self-guided tour, a kids' pizza-making station. Make it more fun. 

And if you have to leave? 

It would be emotional. There's a lot of art in here that's part of the space — mosaics, paintings, the floor. Some of it we can take, some we can't. You start thinking about all that.

How do you see this situation in the broader context of running a business right now? 

Third-party delivery apps are a huge problem — they take a big cut and add very little. And this stretch of Avenue A has a lot of vacancies, which makes things tougher. But we've been through 9/11, Sandy, everything. Pizza is perennial. 

What would you want people in the neighborhood to know right now? 

Two Boots will be here. Whether it's this spot or another nearby, we're not leaving the East Village.