There is a proposal for a sidewalk cafe at The Fourth, the ground-floor restaurant located in the Hyatt Union Square on Fourth Avenue at East 13th Street.
Community Board 2 heard the proposal for the sidewalk cafe with 13 tables and 26 chairs on March 20. Board members had some concerns about the configuration and size of the tables … as did a few nearby residents.
Some concerned residents shared a letter with us that they also submitted to CB2 as well as Councilmember Rosie Mendez's office.
Said one EVG reader:
Their proposal is laughable and preposterous in many ways. It calls for tiny, tiny tables placed perfectly next to one another on the extremely un-level sidewalk there to feign compliance with city laws. The idea that they will actually ask anyone to spend top-shelf prices to dine in these conditions is absurd.
Now let's quote from this letter, which goes into great detail about the way diners sit. Not to mention shoulders:
They have proposed six sets of (2) 19" wide tables pushed up against the wall and pushed up against each other. If these tables could be placed perfectly against each other, they would take up exactly 3'2" of space. Add to that the required 3' for a service corridor and their plan would take up every fraction of an inch available to them (based on their already inaccurate measurements). In reality, it is unrealistic to think that they could ever keep these tables pushed together.
Anyone who has dined at a restaurant knows that when 2 separate parties of 2 persons sit at adjacent tables, the tables are pushed apart (usually about a foot). The way this plan is written, if they push the tables apart by even a quarter of an inch, they are no longer in compliance with city regulations. If they had any intention of keeping the tables together, there would be no reason to request permission for 2 separate tables side by side. They would have requested only one table. They clearly intend to file the plan one way and then place the tables in a very different way.
So far we have only touched upon the size of the tables themselves and their ability to fit within the plans but let's not forget that people will be sitting at these tables and make their claimed placement of the tables impossible. This plan implies that 2 people could be sitting next to each other at this cafe, dining and enjoying cocktails and take up 38" or less of space.
The average width of a human shoulder is between 18" and 19". Even if you had people willing to sit shoulder to shoulder, touching each other, with the inside party's shoulder pinned against the wall, every time you had 2 people with shoulders that were above average, they would expand into the required 3' service aisle and no longer be in compliance with city regulations.
With this application, they are claiming that their diners will sit shoulder to shoulder while pinned against the wall to be in compliance. Even if diners were willing to sit that way (at a very expensive restaurant), would the restaurant then turn away anyone with above average or particularly large shoulders? Of course they would not and it would not even be legal to do so. Even in the best case scenario, it is clear that this cafe, as proposed, will not comply with city regulations. There is simply not enough room for 2 persons to sit side by side on this sidewalk and be in compliance with the law. What they have proposed is impossible.
And here is the proposed cafe configuration…
Those against the proposed cafe as it is now are suggesting that The Fourth reduce the number of tables to six. For their part part, CB2 denied the license. (Read a PDF of the proceedings here.) We understand that the application will now go before City Council next Thursday.
Said the EVG reader: "The City Council could potentially force changes to the plan ... It should be an interesting lesson in local politics to see how it unfolds."
How can we deny tourists the chance to enjoy the sites of the world-famous Champs-Avenue Quatre? Blimpie, Pie Face, The Forum...We can't keep these landmarks to ourselves, people.
ReplyDeleteHahaha!
DeleteAnyone has had the fun of walking along 14th street between 4th Ave and University they know what a cramped and dangerous experience that is. These tight sidewalks force pedestrians into streets to pass which in the case of this hotel that street would be Broadway a street with much faster traffic than 14th street. There must be a limit to the city allowing private corporations from taken the little public space we all share and turning it into private profits. Sidewalks are pedestrian streets, its how New Yorkers move about during our day.
ReplyDeleteA much bigger problem on this stretch of Fourth Avenue is that there are too many vehicle lanes for such a thinly trafficked street. Fourth is a candidate for bike lanes and islands - but bizarrely the proposal ends at 12th street. Not only should it be extended above 12th, but it should also include a take-back of sidewalk (I'll settle for painting the asphalt and adding sand strategy if money is a problem), much like the very successful adjustments up and down Broadway in lower midtown.
ReplyDeleteIf the city would take back some of the (very wide) avenue for pedestrians, then the hotel could have their seating plan. Some cafe seating on avenues is a good thing - if there's room.
@pinhead - hilarious!
ReplyDeleteWhat is not hilarious is that, dollars to doughnuts, Rosie Mendez approves this farcical theft of public space, and the majority of the City Council will fall in line behind her to "support their sister". Hope I am wrong, but the cynic in me sez "Nope. Yer not."
It's not on Broadway it's on 4th Avenue. Are you less outraged now?
ReplyDeleteHere's the google maps photo of the area. We're talking about where the green scaffolding is in the photo. Definitely not a good place for a sidewalk cafe. But there is money to be made in expensive drinks. (Wooo?)
ReplyDeletehttps://www.google.com/maps/@40.733461,-73.989757,3a,75y,266.94h,83.42t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWP-L4QzHo70tywqXY3B86w!2e0
I've never understood the appeal of a sidewalk cafe on a busy avenue. Side of exhaust with your cosmo?
ReplyDeleteNothing against sidewalk cafes in principles, but that space is WAY too narrow and they would obviously end up using more space than they claim. I hope this is never approved.
ReplyDeleteThe people who wrote that letter need a better hobby. And have they ever eaten at a restaurant in the neighborhood, indoors or out? Tables are always on top of one another. And if it's uncomfortable, guests will complain, and they'll fix it. I do agree that E 14th is a mess, but only because the City can't seem to evict all the homeless people and crap-selling vendors that force taxpayers into the street.
ReplyDeleteGojira - I will take your dimes and your donuts and raise you a cronut that Ms. Mendez does jack with this. We have raised concerns to her in the last 5 years ranging from the harrassment of residents by Ben Shaoul, illegal construction, illegal sidewalk cafes, etc. In 99% of the cases we don't even get a response from her office. You have a better chance of getting a response from the Pope or Obama than Rosie. Now she is even more useless as she picked the wrong time to not support her sister for Speaker and instead chose to support her brother.
ReplyDeleteEating in the gutter like a pigeon is so fucking luxurious. I hope they'll be serving fro-yo, wrapped with bacon, in a hoof, with artisanal marrow sprinkles!
ReplyDeleteSidewalk cafes are wonderful. However, the sidewalks should be widened to accommodate.
ReplyDelete- East Villager
I'm sure the customers at the cafe will have no problem fitting into the tiny space provided, since most of them will be either supermodels or have some kind of eating disorder. Unless they are planning to install curbside bikini wax stations using the leftover wax from Bowlmor Lanes, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.
ReplyDeleteAre you all for real?? That is probably the least traveled stretch of sidewalk anywhere in the village, and it is not all that narrow in front of the hotel. I walk my dog by there twice a day. And the noise will bother no one other than the hotel's own guests. jeesh.
ReplyDelete@2:10 PM Says the guy who works the front desk.
ReplyDeleteWhy would a consistently empty restaurant want to add even more chairs that will never see asses?
ReplyDelete@annon 9:50 am
ReplyDeleteIt's okay to point out someone's mistake but to be condescending about it is not cool.
Speaking of google (snoops) maps, take a virtual stroll through the EV and see how much has changed since this info was collected about 2 years ago.
ReplyDelete@11:33 yeah, I think that's the point. They'll fix it by moving the tables and taking more space thereby breaking the law but nobody will enforce it.
ReplyDelete