[Updated] For Two Boots Pizza on Avenue A, a tough slice of reality

Photos and reporting by Stacie Joy 

As the future of Two Boots on Avenue A remains uncertain, owner Phil Hartman says the beloved decades-spanning pizzeria is weighing a handful of difficult options — none of which include leaving the East Village. 

Last Friday, the landlord had two large for-lease signs affixed to the corner space — hours before Hartman was hosting a party at Two Boots to celebrate the re-release of his 1986 film, "No Picnic," at the Film Forum. 

While Hartman said he had a cordial relationship with the landlord, he was upset when he learned the for-lease banner had been put up without his knowledge. He had it removed. 

With a looming rent increase and new "for lease" signs returning soon outside 42 Avenue A at Third Street, Hartman says the choices come down to staying and absorbing annual losses, relocating to another part of the neighborhood, or returning to the original mid-block space at 37 Avenue A. 

A decision, he said, is likely in the coming weeks as he balances financial realities with deep roots on the block — and concern from staff and the community.

Hartman got emotional during a recent conversation about Two Boots' future. 

He was clear about this: "What is NOT an option: leaving the EV, our birthplace, behind." 

 

Is there an update on the lease situation?

No, really, there's no update. I was quite sad because there had been no warning [about the for-lease signs]. We had an event [last Friday night], so I asked them to take it down. And they did. And then they asked us to put it back up on Monday. But we just got a special event with Alan Cumming. Alan was doing a series with the BBC on his favorite spots in New York, and he chose Two Boots as his pizza place. We created a pizza called The Cumming for him. He just came in and shot with his crew today. So that was fun. 

I feel like [the for-lease sign] is seeking to pressure us. And I just don't know what we're going to do, so I don't have an update on our plans. They remain that we're either going to stay where we are or we're going to relocate in the East Village. Those are the only options.

Is there a timeline? When do you have to make a decision? 

I would say in the next couple of weeks. Honestly, I've been really preoccupied with my film. So I've put it off a little bit, but now the film's up and running, and it's selling out every show, which has been great. Now I've got to figure it out. I have looked at other locations. ["No Picnic" has also been extended a week at the Film Forum.]

My past is rooted in this piece of land here on Avenue A. So it's very difficult.

If you do decide that what the landlord is asking for is too much, that the margins would be too slim, and you would need to leave. Is there an exit date? 

Not yet, but I will share that when we get to that point. I'm just grappling with this very emotional situation, and I've got a dozen staff members there who are obviously very concerned. And I've had a whole community of people that are really concerned, and I'm trying to take all that into account.

I am going to put a clipboard on the counter [at Two Boots] so that people can leave their contact info, and I can keep them in the loop. 

Updated 2 p.m. The sign arrived today...

Per Hartman: "Sign is up. Ugh — so, upsetting."

Previously on EV Grieve:

• Two Boots' longtime Avenue A home listed for the first time in 30 years as lease talks continue 

• Checking in with Phil Hartman on Two Boots' future on Avenue A — and the East Village

A 'No Picnic' pizza party at Two Boots

Photos by Stacie Joy 

Two Boots on Avenue A hosted a "No Picnic" after-party last night following the film's opening screening at the Film Forum.

Phil Hartman's black-and-white 1986 feature — a time capsule of an in-progress gentrifying East Village — is now back in circulation in a new restoration. 

The gathering at Two Boots brought the film's past and present a little closer together, with friends, collaborators and neighborhood regulars filling the longtime pizzeria. 

Hartman went on to co-found Two Boots not long after completing the film — tying the project and the space together in a way that still resonates nearly 40 years later.

There were one-night-only slices created in honor of "No Picnic," including Stripe, Annie and Dead Pimp (played in a cameo by Steve Buscemi)...

Also getting an honorary slice for the night was longtime East Village resident Greg Masters, here with Odetta Hartman...

In "No Picnic," Masters plays "The Walker," who you will see crossing the screen several times. (As for the Walker slice — sopresatta and sweet Italian sausage on a white pie.) 

Masters had another important role in the film: The protagonist Mac's apartment was filmed in his longtime EV home, which he told us doesn't look that much different 40 years later.

Throughout the night, many members of the cast and crew stopped by, including Luis Guzman and Anne D'Agnillo. 

Here's Hartman with the musicians, Daso and Carlos Acevedo...

Also on-hand: Joseph "Count Slima" Williams, an East Village poet, artist and longtime Two Boots staffer. (He also helped build the original Two Boots outpost on Avenue A.) 

Slima's work is featured in "No Picnic" ... you can also spot his art at Sophie's on Fifth Street.

"No Picnic" continues at the Film Forum on West Houston Street. Film info here. 

And the trailer to refresh your memory...

   

Previously on EV Grieve:

• Phil Hartman on 'No Picnic' and capturing a vanishing East Village in the 1980s

[UPDATED] For-lease sign arrives at longtime home of Two Boots Pizza on Avenue A — surprising owner, staff

Photos and reporting by Stacie Joy 

For-lease signs went up today outside Two Boots Pizza on Avenue A and Third Street — catching owner Phil Hartman and staff by surprise.

Hartman said they did not see the sign being installed. 

The timing is less than ideal: Hartman is hosting a private after-party at the pizzeria tonight tied to long-awaited screenings of his 1986 film "No Picnic" opening at the Film Forum.

As previously reported, the longtime home of Two Boots — at 42 Avenue A — was recently listed for rent for the first time in decades amid ongoing lease negotiations. 

Hartman has said he's "cautiously optimistic" about staying in the space, though the listing — and now the arrival of signage — adds a new layer of urgency to the situation. 

Two Boots has been on Avenue A since the 1980s. Hartman previously told us he'd find a home elsewhere in the East Village if necessary. He has no plans to leave the neighborhood he loves. 

Whatever comes next, tonight belongs to Hartman.

Updated 4:18 p.m. 

A tipster told us the sign has been removed... and we confirmed.

While Hartman said he had a cordial relationship with the landlord, he was upset when he learned the for-lease banner had been put up without his knowledge. 

"I will get them to take it down," he told us.

Previously on EV Grieve: 

• Two Boots' longtime Avenue A home listed for the first time in 30 years as lease talks continue 

• Checking in with Phil Hartman on Two Boots' future on Avenue A — and the East Village

Checking in with Phil Hartman on Two Boots’ future on Avenue A — and the East Village

Photos and interview by Stacie Joy 

As we reported on Tuesday, the longtime home of East Village mainstay Two Boots Pizza — at 42 Avenue A on the NE corner of Third Street — has been listed for lease for the first time in 30 years. 

At the time, owner Phil Hartman said they were hoping to negotiate a new lease with the landlord while remaining in the neighborhood. 

With the listing now public and questions swirling about what's next for the Cajun-Italian slice spot (and its corner, which once housed the Two Boots video store and Pioneer Theater), we checked back in with Hartman yesterday afternoon for an update — and what the future might look like.

How do things stand with the landlord right now?

Talks are ongoing. I got a counteroffer yesterday, which I appreciated. At the same time, we're looking at other spaces in the neighborhood just to get a sense of comparison. I'm very emotionally tied to this spot, so we're cautiously optimistic. 

Did the listing change the tone or urgency of negotiations? 

A little. It was somewhat unexpected, and it affects the staff — you want to reassure them that things are going to be OK. But I've been doing this for 43 years. I've opened 34 businesses. Nothing really shocks me anymore.

Were you expecting the listing? 

There had been some talk, but the timing was a surprise. 

The asking rent is listed at around $22,500. Is that realistic? 

 

I'd call that aspirational. Landlords tend to be aspirational. I have a sense of what a business can do here to survive — and that number is high. 

Do you have a timeline for a decision? 

No hard deadline, but it's pressing. I'd say we'll know more in the next few weeks. 

How likely is it that you will stay at this location? 

As I said, cautiously optimistic.

If not here, would you stay in the neighborhood? 

Absolutely. Two Boots is staying in the East Village. It might be a few blocks away or right here. 

You've mentioned your ties to the neighborhood — how much does that factor in? 

A lot. I raised my kids around the corner, and now my daughter is raising her daughter here. My grandparents lived on Henry Street — we're five generations in the neighborhood. And we work with so many community groups. The Lower Eastside Girls Club alone is reason enough to stay. 

If you do stay in this space, would anything change? 

Yeah — I'd love to lean into the history. Turn this into the birthplace of Two Boots. Maybe a little museum feel, a self-guided tour, a kids' pizza-making station. Make it more fun. 

And if you have to leave? 

It would be emotional. There's a lot of art in here that's part of the space — mosaics, paintings, the floor. Some of it we can take, some we can't. You start thinking about all that.

How do you see this situation in the broader context of running a business right now? 

Third-party delivery apps are a huge problem — they take a big cut and add very little. And this stretch of Avenue A has a lot of vacancies, which makes things tougher. But we've been through 9/11, Sandy, everything. Pizza is perennial. 

What would you want people in the neighborhood to know right now? 

Two Boots will be here. Whether it's this spot or another nearby, we're not leaving the East Village.

Two Boots’ longtime Avenue A home listed for first time in 30 years as lease talks continue

Photo and reporting by Stacie Joy

Updated 3/26: We have more from Phil Hartman here.

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The longtime home of East Village mainstay Two Boots Pizza — at 42 Avenue A on the SE corner of Third Street — is now on the rental market. 

Last week, we spotted an apparent off-market listing for the space. When asked at the time, owner Phil Hartman said they were hoping to negotiate a new lease with the landlord.

"We've been in that spot for 30 years, and began across the street 39 years ago, and hope to stay," he told us. 

Last night, a listing via Meridian Capital Group surfaced on Instagram, describing the space as an "East Village staple" and a "rare opportunity."

The online listing states the monthly rent as $22,500.

Despite the listing going live, Hartman said last night that they are still in talks with the landlord.

"Right now, we're trying to decide if we want to stay where we are or relocate, depending on negotiations with our landlord — a very nice guy, as a matter of fact, who I've known for over 30 years! In any case, the East Village is deep in the bones of Two Boots — and in me, of course — and we will always be in the neighborhood. We need to stay close to the Lower Eastside Girls Club, Loisaida Inc., Anthology Film Archives, the Keswell School, Hetrick- Martin Institute, and the dozens of other community partners that we treasure."

Two Boots — named for the shapes of Italy and Louisiana — began in the East Village in 1987, when Hartman, a filmmaker, and Doris Kornish teamed up with developer John Touhey to open the original restaurant at 37 Avenue A. 

A slice shop opened across A before moving to its current location. In the ensuing years, other outposts opened up around NYC and in cities such as Baltimore and Nashville. 

Known for its Cajun-Italian mashups (and quirky slice names), the brand has long been a staple in the neighborhood's pizza scene.

The corner space on A and Third also once housed the Two Boots video store, Den of Cin and the Pioneer Theater, featuring eclectic indie programming. 

Whether at 42 Avenue A or elsewhere in the neighborhood, it sounds like Two Boots will remain in the East Village.

The Two Boots on Nassau Street no longer appears to be happening

EVG reader Carl Bentsen shared this photo from Nassau Street near Fulton in the Financial District ... showing a for rent sign on what was to be the next location of Two Boots, the East Village-based pizzeria.

The folks at Two Boots were also going to keep and restore that Loft's Candies neon signage that workers uncovered during renovations at the address.

No word on what happened to this multi-level location for Two Boots. (They didn't respond to an email for comment.) The Two Boots website still lists this location as coming soon in the spring of 2017.

Two Boots, which got its start on Avenue A (different location than its current home) in 1987, has 13 locations in multiple states.

Previously on EV Grieve:
This post has nothing to do with the East Village, except for the part about 2 Boots Pizza

This post still has nothing to do with the East Village, except for the part about 2 Boots Pizza

This post still has nothing to do with the East Village, except for the part about 2 Boots Pizza

As I first noted back on Sept. 16, renovations for a Two Boots on Nassau Street in the Financial District turned up ghost signage for onetime tenant Loft's Candies...

It was unknown if Two Boots would keep the neon or have it removed...

Now East Village-based photographers James and Karla Murray report via Instagram that 2 Boots will be restoring the sign.

Per James and Karla: "Instead of just removing the signage, the good news is that Two Boots will be restoring the sign ... We love when we hear that a new tenant appreciates the history of a store and its signage. In this case, the Loft's sign features the candy store's mid century logotype."

The work on the sign started earlier this week...



Two Boots, which got its start on Avenue A (different location than its current home) in 1987, now has 17 locations in six states.

Previously on EV Grieve:
This post has nothing to do with the East Village, except for the part about 2 Boots Pizza

This post has nothing to do with the East Village, except for the part about 2 Boots Pizza

Workers recently removed the sign from a women's discount boutique on Nassau Street down in the Financial District ... revealing cool ghost neon signage for Loft's Candies...

Per Wikipedia, English immigrant William Loft opened a candy store on Canal Street in 1860... at one point they were the "largest maker and seller of candy in the world in the second decade of the 20th century." In 1941, Loft merged with PepsiCo. By 1990, the last Loft's retail store had closed.

I have no idea when this location ceased operations. The storefront had been home to a Lily's Boutique in recent years. According to the Commercial Observer, Two Boots Pizza will be opening its first Lower Manhattan location here ... complete with a pizzeria and bar/lounge.

Two Boots, which got its start on Avenue A (different location than its current home) in 1987, now has 17 locations in six states.

3 East Village restaurants that are expanding into new neighborhoods

[Image via]

1) Whitmans at 406 E. Ninth St. between Avenue A and First Avenue is opening its second NYC location ... in the Hudson Yards development on 10th Avenue between East 29th Street and East 30th Street, per DNAinfo. Co-owner Larry Kramer said that he hoped to be serving their style of burgers by the end of the summer or early fall.

2) Flinders Lane at 162 Avenue A between East 10th Street and East 11th Street is bringing their Australian cuisine down to West Broadway in Tribeca. CB1 gave them the OK for a liquor license this week, per the Tribeca Citizen.

3) Two Boots, with its flagship location on Avenue A at East Third Street, already has a fairly large pizzeria footprint ... and now they are adding to that. For starters, the 2 Boots in Grand Central is shutting down at the end of the month, as Eater first reported. Founder-owner Phil Hartman is moving nearby to 337 Lexington in the beginning of March. In addition, Eater notes that Hartman and his son Leon are adding locations in Jersey City, Stamford, Conn., Washington, D.C. and in the Financial District. This will up the 2 Boots total to nearly 20 in the United States.

Report: The 2 Boots on Bleecker Street has closed

The 2 Boots location on Bleecker between Crosby and Broadway has closed, Eater reported yesterday.

Apparently "a landlord dispute" is to blame.

As you can see, the for rent signs are up in the pizzeria's windows…



According to the Acadia listing:

The recently renovated 640 Broadway stretches a full city block on Bleecker Street between Broadway and Crosby Street and is located in Manhattan’s densely populated NoHo neighborhood. Organic Avenue and Swatch occupy the corner retail spaces. The building is located within three blocks of seven subway lines and benefits from strong demographics, heavy tourism and significant foot traffic from shoppers on Broadway. The main campus of New York University is located one block from 640 Broadway and provides a large base of millennial shoppers and diners.

There isn't any mention of rent.

Meanwhile, Eater notes that the Avenue A Two Boots is making deliveries to this area to make up for the closure.