The most-commented-on post of the week:
From Tuesday... news that roadway dining will be allowed year-round drew 90 comments. Readers debated noise, rats, parking, public space, snow removal and whether the sheds are a neighborhood amenity or nuisance.
22 comments:
For those who truly favor street dining (not referring to traditional sidewalk cafe), wondering ?:
Is the support for street dining due to car issues/elimination of parking? If so, that is a different topic.
How is the environmental impact (winterizing structures, energy, trash etc) justified?
Aren't there already massive numbers of restaurants/cafes/takeout places? Plus food delivery. Some blocks are all food places. There is no way they can all survive - so why more "street dining" space?
(BTW many days this summer walking past street dining spaces completely empty at midday. This includes at "popular" restaurants too)
Do you live above a street dining structure?
Don't pedestrians deserve to be able to see the street rather than be blocked by dining structures? Or walk on the sidewalk without bumping into waitstaff?
Do you rally think that waitstaff like being forced to go back&forth from restaurant across the sidewalk? In the winter? In the rain? (Trust me here: they don't)
Why do restaurants get favored status? Why doesn't NYC give space to laundromats or small retail which are really struggling?
This topic will continue to drive residents mad with rage. I am so angry and disappointed in our city officials. Money, power, and influence are the only things which seem to matter for these corrupt individuals.
The roadway dining setups are used so consistently & are appreciated so much by people in the neighborhood who enjoy restaurants that debating in favor of eliminating them seems insane.
The one good-faith argument presented about a broad policy issue dealing with the sheds is the noise. In places where there are residences directly overhead, it seems reasonable to have a strictly observed/enforced cutoff time. During the day, I can't help you if you don't like hearing New York.
The argument that they cause rats or visible homelessness or any other cleanliness hardships has been debunked over and over. Sounds like people are repeating lies.
As for concerns about "public space", if the answer is that removing a shed results in a parking space coming back, then there's no debate about public space at all... seating for 20 (with people coming and going) is better than days-long vehicle curb squatting for 0. The arguments that long-term curbside takeovers, broadly, are inappropriate private uses of public spaces seem to have no other "public" suggestions other than first-come-first-serve private free parking. And this concern didn't come up much when people were talking about the privately-controlled Elizabeth Street Garden, huh?
And none of this specifically seems to have anything to do with whether it worsens the program to extend it to the winter months!
These kinds of dining areas are common in cities all over the world. They should mostly stay put here, and the city shouldn't impose non-conditional restrictions on them unless the restaurants can make practical accommodations. The Council fixed an egregious mistake by removing the citywide, no-exception winter month restrictions that kept the vast majority of restaurants out of the program altogether.
In general, our local government looks to squeeze as much money out of us as possible: Congestion pricing, and now parking meters just recently went up and, on Saint Marks Place and surrounding 1st avenue, you have to pay for the parking meters until midnight. So besides the fees for the licenses for the outdoor dining sheds, why doesn’t the city charge them rent per square foot. You can see from the comments on the last posting on Grieve that pretty much all of us locals despise these sheds. The entitlement is absurd. So why not hit up the restaurant owners for more loot. Maybe then the restaurant owners will rethink this bullshit and take a pass.
really interesting to watch the EV slowly go from a "whatever you want, that's cool" neighborhood to another nimby place, lol
"pretty much all of us locals despise these sheds."
I don't know that that is the case. I have lived in the East village since 1980, so I guess I count as a local. I don't object to them, nor do the people that I know. I almost never eat or drink in them, though; I just figure it's the sort of thing that should be part of city life.
Even with the noise argument, many restaurants and bars use backyards with curfews. I don't understand how it's any different in that regard. The avenues were much nicer before the sheds went down, it was an immediate downgrade when they were removed.
Given the fees still exist and there's no longer a covid necessity, I don't see the year-round law resulting in significantly more sheds going up. The heated debate is all for nothing I think.
That’s everywhere, always, forever
Lol, "locals" don't despise these at all, judging by them being packed with happy people having fun whenever I go past. A handful of bitter, free parking obsessed boomers who rarely leave their rent controlled apartments ranting online hardly constitute a consensus.
What I saw mostly in the comments is the desperate thrashing of people who cannot accept the city like all cities around the world are changing... New York is as usual the slowest to demonstrate progress (see trash containerization/congestion charging) But regressive, car-centric policies are being left behind even here, and that's the future. I expect most of the types of people moaning about this will eventually be left behind with them.
I don't understand the need for a street shed when almost all of the restaurants in question maintain an under utilized seating capacity when these outdoor units are being used. It immediately debunks the business owners' need for the additional space. Sidewalk cafes were perfectly suited to marginally increase revenues in the summer time. Now, it's just nonsense.
How many times did you mention parking? Enough said.
If that’s what you think, you not been here long enough to remember the old days.
Cars, cars, cars. I thought this was about restaurants.
“ free parking obsessed boomers who rarely leave their rent controlled apartments”. Got any other bigoted stereotypes you wanna trot out?
Divisive demographic mongering aside: this resident since 1981 has lived above a string of outdoor sheds and it is hell from Thursday to Sunday with the noise and sidewalk congestion and they definitely are not filled with locals. Sounds like a loud party next door all weekend. You are delusional if you don't think they become rat hotels.
LOL, I see the rats go underneath the structure, but according to you its a lie. Okay
Brian Van,
Sure there is sidewalk cafe seating through out Europe - but it is not enclosed or a structure.
As for “in the street” seating, that is quite limited and again not structures. Not enclosed. Not winterized.
Typically outdoor tables and chairs on a cobblestone plaza and often multiple restaurants share the area.
But it is not everywhere, not throughout residential streets.
Summary of the Comments:
Recent transplants who treat our community like an open air toilet: For!
Longtime residents who care about our health and safety: AGAINST!!
personally love sitting outside and eating, it feels like a major city should. the weekend street closures are great as well, less cars and more pedestrians please.
I feel unsafe after dark by these sheds. It totally blocks sight line. Guess we should all go back to the baddy days when we used to walk in the street because it *was* safer.
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