Checking in with Phil Hartman on Two Boots’ future on Avenue A — and the East Village

Photos and interview by Stacie Joy 

As we reported on Tuesday, the longtime home of East Village mainstay Two Boots Pizza — at 42 Avenue A on the NE corner of Third Street — has been listed for lease for the first time in 30 years. 

At the time, owner Phil Hartman said they were hoping to negotiate a new lease with the landlord while remaining in the neighborhood. 

With the listing now public and questions swirling about what's next for the Cajun-Italian slice spot (and its corner, which once housed the Two Boots video store and Pioneer Theater), we checked back in with Hartman yesterday afternoon for an update — and what the future might look like.

How do things stand with the landlord right now?

Talks are ongoing. I got a counteroffer yesterday, which I appreciated. At the same time, we're looking at other spaces in the neighborhood just to get a sense of comparison. I'm very emotionally tied to this spot, so we're cautiously optimistic. 

Did the listing change the tone or urgency of negotiations? 

A little. It was somewhat unexpected, and it affects the staff — you want to reassure them that things are going to be OK. But I've been doing this for 43 years. I've opened 34 businesses. Nothing really shocks me anymore.

Were you expecting the listing? 

There had been some talk, but the timing was a surprise. 

The asking rent is listed at around $22,500. Is that realistic? 

 

I'd call that aspirational. Landlords tend to be aspirational. I have a sense of what a business can do here to survive — and that number is high. 

Do you have a timeline for a decision? 

No hard deadline, but it's pressing. I'd say we'll know more in the next few weeks. 

How likely is it that you will stay at this location? 

As I said, cautiously optimistic.

If not here, would you stay in the neighborhood? 

Absolutely. Two Boots is staying in the East Village. It might be a few blocks away or right here. 

You've mentioned your ties to the neighborhood — how much does that factor in? 

A lot. I raised my kids around the corner, and now my daughter is raising her daughter here. My grandparents lived on Henry Street — we're five generations in the neighborhood. And we work with so many community groups. The Lower Eastside Girls Club alone is reason enough to stay. 

If you do stay in this space, would anything change? 

Yeah — I'd love to lean into the history. Turn this into the birthplace of Two Boots. Maybe a little museum feel, a self-guided tour, a kids' pizza-making station. Make it more fun. 

And if you have to leave? 

It would be emotional. There's a lot of art in here that's part of the space — mosaics, paintings, the floor. Some of it we can take, some we can't. You start thinking about all that.

How do you see this situation in the broader context of running a business right now? 

Third-party delivery apps are a huge problem — they take a big cut and add very little. And this stretch of Avenue A has a lot of vacancies, which makes things tougher. But we've been through 9/11, Sandy, everything. Pizza is perennial. 

What would you want people in the neighborhood to know right now? 

Two Boots will be here. Whether it's this spot or another nearby, we're not leaving the East Village.

Two Boots’ longtime Avenue A home listed for first time in 30 years as lease talks continue

Photo and reporting by Stacie Joy

Updated 3/26: We have more from Phil Hartman here.

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The longtime home of East Village mainstay Two Boots Pizza — at 42 Avenue A on the SE corner of Third Street — is now on the rental market. 

Last week, we spotted an apparent off-market listing for the space. When asked at the time, owner Phil Hartman said they were hoping to negotiate a new lease with the landlord.

"We've been in that spot for 30 years, and began across the street 39 years ago, and hope to stay," he told us. 

Last night, a listing via Meridian Capital Group surfaced on Instagram, describing the space as an "East Village staple" and a "rare opportunity."

The online listing states the monthly rent as $22,500.

Despite the listing going live, Hartman said last night that they are still in talks with the landlord.

"Right now, we're trying to decide if we want to stay where we are or relocate, depending on negotiations with our landlord — a very nice guy, as a matter of fact, who I've known for over 30 years! In any case, the East Village is deep in the bones of Two Boots — and in me, of course — and we will always be in the neighborhood. We need to stay close to the Lower Eastside Girls Club, Loisaida Inc., Anthology Film Archives, the Keswell School, Hetrick- Martin Institute, and the dozens of other community partners that we treasure."

Two Boots — named for the shapes of Italy and Louisiana — began in the East Village in 1987, when Hartman, a filmmaker, and Doris Kornish teamed up with developer John Touhey to open the original restaurant at 37 Avenue A. 

A slice shop opened across A before moving to its current location. In the ensuing years, other outposts opened up around NYC and in cities such as Baltimore and Nashville. 

Known for its Cajun-Italian mashups (and quirky slice names), the brand has long been a staple in the neighborhood's pizza scene.

The corner space on A and Third also once housed the Two Boots video store, Den of Cin and the Pioneer Theater, featuring eclectic indie programming. 

Whether at 42 Avenue A or elsewhere in the neighborhood, it sounds like Two Boots will remain in the East Village.

A broken window at Two Boots

Multiple EVG readers shared photos this morning from the NE corner of Avenue A and Third Street, where the NYPD had crime scene tape up around a broken window at Two Boots Pizza. (Thanks to Salim for this photo.)

Two Boots owner Phil Hartman told us that it was a break-in at the Smoke House smoke shop next door.

"Because we share a window—the vestige from Two Boots Video — he smashed our glass, which included irreplaceable hand-painted art by Nicolina, circa 2008," said Hartman. 

He noted that this is the fourth broken window at a Two Boots location in the past four months. 

Updated: According to a Smoke House employee, "no one was here. They just took some stuff—little things — from the display cases. There was no real damage except for the window."

With reporting by Stacie Joy

A slice of street art for Two Boots

A colorful new mural by Tats Cru — via the LISA Project NYC — went up today on the corner of Avenue A and Third Street outside Two Boots. (Thanks for the tip, Newman!)

Grab a slice and check it out... 

Tuesday's parting video

 

Video and text by Greg Masters 

Following a Mardi Gras celebration at Two Boots, where owner Phil Hartman passed out free Swamp Witch Pizza, Boudin Bombinis and beads, the Mona's Marching Band led a second line up Avenue A, through Tompkins Square Park and into Mona's on Avenue B between 13th Street and 14th Street.

New ovens for Two Boots Pizza on Avenue A

After 26 years and an estimated 10 million slices, Two Boots Pizza is installing new ovens today at the shop on Avenue A and Third Street. 

With the oven work, the pizzeria is closed today... back open tomorrow at the usual time — noon. 

Image via @twobootspizza

Two Boots supporting Ukraine with 2 new pizzas, including the Mr. Ze

Photos by Stacie Joy

Two Boots Pizza has partnered with Razom for Ukraine to help support the war-torn country. 

The pizzeria, which has long named their special pies (see The Dude, the CBGB or Larry Tate), unveiled Mr. Ze after Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and the Lesya, for the Ukrainian writer-activist Lesya Ukrainka. 

Each pizza includes key ingredients from two longtime Ukrainian businesses in the East Village. Mr. Ze has kielbasa from East Village Meat Market, while the Lesya has borscht from Veselka.

All proceeds from the sales of these pizzas will go to Razom for Ukraine, a nonprofit that supports the residents and culture of that country. 

The special pizzas are available at the EV location, 42 Avenue A at Third Street, and the West Village outpost, 101 Seventh Ave. S. 

At the Avenue A shop yesterday, EVG contributor Stacie Joy caught up with Two Boots staffers Antoline Lopez and Willicia Thomas with a Mr. Ze...

Two Boots also donated food for the Stand With Ukraine Community Concert at the Ukrainian National Home on Second Avenue this past Saturday.

Thursday's parting shots

HBD to Dr. Anthony Fauci on this Christmas Eve day ... and as seen at Two Boots Pizza on Avenue A and Third Street...

Thanks to EVG regular Greg Masters for the photos!

Two Boots Pizza returns today after a 17-day break

Two Boots announced a two-plus week closure starting on April 6 to regroup and give their employees a much-needed break.

The pizzeria on Avenue A and Third Street returns to service today. Moving forward, their temporary hours are 4-9 p.m. Monday through Thursday, and until 10 p.m. on Friday and Saturday.

And they weren't completely off-duty these past two weeks: They served pizzas to first responders and other health-care workers via @sliceouthunger.

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Two Boots Pizza (@twobootspizza) on Apr 21, 2020 at 7:09am PDT

Last day for Two Boots for the next few weeks

Two Boots Pizza on Avenue A and Third Street is taking a break after service today.

The longtime pizzeria hopes to return the week of April 20. Here's more via Instagram...

View this post on Instagram

We are AMAZED at the support we have received, not just during this unprecedented time in our history, but for the past 33 years. We will see you sooner rather than later ... #weareinthistogether #twobootspizza #nyceats #veganeats #itsnotgoodbyeitsseeyoulater #pizza #nycpizza #pizzalovers #pizzalove #nycfood #nycrestaurant #nyc

A post shared by Two Boots Pizza (@twobootspizza) on Apr 4, 2020 at 1:56pm PDT

Tuesday's parting shot

Last night, Assemblymember Harvey Epstein presented longtime resident Chino Garcia with a proclamation. As Epstein said, Garcia's "decades of arts-centered activism is and always will be an integral part of the Lower East Side."

The ceremony was held at the new West Village location of Two Boots Pizza.

Christmas comes early on Avenue A with filming for the new Netflix series 'Dash & Lily'

[Top 2 photos by @Jason_Chatfield]

Crews were out today along Avenue A and Third Street shooting scenes for "Dash & Lily," an eight-episode holiday romantic comedy series set for Netflix in 2020. (The show is based on the young-adult book series "Dash & Lily’s Book of Dares" from authors Rachel Cohn and David Levithan.)

Two Boots served as the location for the shoot this morning...



And given the holiday theme... Third Street was dressed with a Christmas tree stand... As Cáit O'Riordan, who shared this photo, joked on Twitter: "Ah! I thought I’d blacked out and missed Halloween."



Expect to see more of "Dash & Lily" around the neighborhood... they'll be filming along here again tomorrow... and there are posted notices on other streets, including 12th Street near the Strand.

You can read this article for more background on the series, which stars Austin Abrams and Midori Francis.

Celebrating 32 years of Two Boots Pizza

On Tuesday night, Two Boots Pizza celebrated its 32nd anniversary at its outpost at 42 Avenue A and Third Street.

Phil Hartman (a former owner of the Great Jones Cafe), Doris Kornish and John Touhey opened the first Two Boots on June 24, 1987 at 37 Avenue A between Second Street and Third Street.

And an estimated 50 million slices later ... friends and neighbors came out on Tuesday night to honor Hartman and Two Boots on this 32nd birthday. (Two Boots also introduced two new pizzas: My Brilliant Friend and My Brilliant Vegan Friend, both spicy with broccoli rabe, garlic, peppers and meat or mock meat.)

EVG contributor Stacie Joy stopped by the festivities...


[My Brilliant Friend]




[Christy and Charles from Exit 9 with Joseph from Cava Glass]






[John Touhey, left, and Phil Hartman]

2 Boots Pizza celebrating 32 years tonight on Avenue A

Two Boots Pizza is marking its 32nd year in business this evening with a bash in the outpost on Avenue A at Third Street.

From 6-8 you'll find live music as well as samples of two new pizzas...



If you've walked by the space in recent days then you may have seen Jim Power working on his mosaic planters (the ones featuring sculptures by Melissa White) ...





The first Two Boots opened on June 24, 1987 at 37 Avenue A between Second Street and Third Street.

After bankruptcy auction, 113 E. 2nd St. returns to market for $1.1 million more

A for-sale sign has been posted outside the townhouse at 113 E. Second St. between Avenue A and First Avenue.

Just last month, as The Real Deal reported, an entity called 180 Source Realty LLC bought the property for $7.4 million in a bankruptcy auction.

Apparently 180 Source Realty LLC — property records list its manager as Michael Lavian — isn't keeping the five-story, two-family home: it hit the market last week for $8.4 million.

Here's a bit of the listing via Leslie J. Garfield:

Number 113 is currently configured as a two-family with a former performance space in the garden floor. This stately red brick townhome features incredible ceiling heights throughout, a spacious garden, and an open layout chef’s kitchen. The upper quadruplex features 7 bedrooms and 5 bathrooms and the parlor floor unit is a charming 1 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment. With no buildings obstructing light on either side of the house, light flows through both the front and rear facades.

The townhouse was once home to Phil Hartman and Doris Kornish, the founders of the Two Boots empire, and had been the center of a protracted divorce battle, as the Post reported in October 2017. At that time, the asking price was $10.5 million.

The home has a little less shade these days: the tree outside the property was recently cut down...

The Two Boots on Nassau Street no longer appears to be happening

EVG reader Carl Bentsen shared this photo from Nassau Street near Fulton in the Financial District ... showing a for rent sign on what was to be the next location of Two Boots, the East Village-based pizzeria.

The folks at Two Boots were also going to keep and restore that Loft's Candies neon signage that workers uncovered during renovations at the address.

No word on what happened to this multi-level location for Two Boots. (They didn't respond to an email for comment.) The Two Boots website still lists this location as coming soon in the spring of 2017.

Two Boots, which got its start on Avenue A (different location than its current home) in 1987, has 13 locations in multiple states.

Previously on EV Grieve:
This post has nothing to do with the East Village, except for the part about 2 Boots Pizza

This post still has nothing to do with the East Village, except for the part about 2 Boots Pizza

A pizza for Count Slima

[Photo of Count Slima by Walter Wlodarczyk]

Joseph "Count Slima" Williams worked for the Two Boots family for 30-plus years, starting with helping build the original location at 37 Avenue A in 1987.

He has retired from Two Boots ... and now the pizzeria has named a pie in his honor.

Starting today, you can grab a slice of the Count Slima, featuring bacon, andouille meatballs and tasso ham on a thick Sicilian crust...

Man, mutant, legend...Get ready for a whole lotta Count Slima! This special new pie is named in honor of the legendary poet and East Village icon Joseph 'Count Slima' Williams and is the newest addition to our Daily Specials rotation. Grab it on Tuesday at any Two Boots or catch the man himself on the street in the East Village or probably (or definitely!) at the pool table at Sophies! Artwork by @mikerothart #twoboots #pizzapioneers #definitely #CountSlima #pizza #nycpizza #nycfood #art #pizzaart #pizzeria #eastvillage #sophieseastvillage #legend

A post shared by Two Boots Pizza (@twobootspizza) on Jun 2, 2017 at 2:25pm PDT

Even if you don't see Slima playing pool at Sophie's (on Fifth Street between Aveue A and Avenue B), you can still see his artwork that adorns some of the walls there.

More about the world's smallest screening room coming to Two Boots on Avenue A

This past weekend, we noted that Two Boots was ending its 18-year run renting movies.

Two Boots Video closed in the fall of 2008, with a much smaller rental collection merging next door in the pizzeria. (And their great Pioneer Theater RIP'd in November 2008. The video space and Pioneer Theater are now part of the Upright Citizens Brigade.)

Meanwhile, as the posters on the pizzeria's doors on Avenue A and East Third Street promise, the Pioneer Jr. is on the way … dubbed as "The world's smallest screening room."

We reached out to Two Boots owner Phil Hartman for more details.

"We had 18 great years at Two Boots Video and stubbornly kept the little nook going way longer than we ever envisioned — even though barely anyone rents DVDs anymore," Hartman told us via email.

Now it's time to transition to something else.

"We're putting a big screen in that little space, with a cool table made from a refurbished Two Boots sign, and probably about seven stools, so that folks can screen films while eating pizza and drinking pitchers of beer," said Hartman, who added that they're putting in a beer tap on the counter. "It will be a mini-tribute to The Pioneer Theater and a way for us to keep our love of movies alive."

He hopes that the Pioneer Jr. will be up and running before Dec. 25.

In other Two Boots movie-related news, the Saint Nic pizza makes its annual appearance starting on Dec. 19.

As Hartman said, it's a tribute to Nicolas Cage, "the saint of overheated movie acting."

Previously on EV Grieve:
Two Boots is getting out of the video rental business on Avenue A

Two Boots is getting out of the video rental business on Avenue A

The pizzeria has been selling off its DVD collection from the Two Boots Video Nook the past few days.

Probably not a shocker. Does anyone rent movies anymore?



Anywhere, we hear that the DVDs are going for $1, Blu-Ray and new releases $5, and Criterion Collection films $10.

But! The sign outside the pizzeria on Avenue A and East Third Street promises something new...



The Pioneer Jr. "The world's smallest screening room." OK!

Two Boots Video closed in the fall of 2008, with a much smaller rental collection merging next door in the pizzeria. (The video space and Pioneer Theater are now part of the Upright Citizens Brigade.)

Thank you to @geofffree for the tip!

Two Boots turns 25

From the EV Grieve inbox...

Please join us tonight at 6 at Two Boots East Village (42 Avenue A @ E. 3rd St.), for our BIMBO RIVAS TRIBUTE, the first of our 25 special events marking Two Boots' 25th Anniversary.

Mosaic artist Carlos Pinto will unveil a fabulous new piece honoring the great LES poet Bimbo Rivas, whose paean to the neighborhood, "Loisaida," coined the term that has become part of our local dialect.

There will be free pizza ("The Luisaida," which pays tribute to local luminary Luis Guzman), free wine and beer (from our new upgraded wine and beer list), live music by the Stumblebum Brass Band, and poetry readings by the Nuyorican Poet's Cafe All-Stars.