Thursday, October 21, 2010

More details on Halloween night protest/fiesta in Tompkins Square Park


Longtime East Village activist/photojournalist John Penley passed along more details about a Halloween evening protest in Tompkins Square Park:

On Halloween there will be a Protest/Fiesta in Tompkins Square Park to make some noise and ask the question, Whose Fukin Park? Unelected Real Estate/Yuppie/NYU Student lovin members of Community Board 3 have decided they want cops with sound meters and much fewer music and cultural events in the Park next year.


It will take place roughly 7 p.m. to midnight... and at that hour: "At Midnight we will go to the Apt. of the person behind this."

Previously on EV Grieve:
Movement afoot to limit the number of concerts in Tompkins Square Park

[Star Fucking Hipsters Photo by John Penley]

74 comments:

John M said...

And once again, I ask the question....how does their right to gather in an open space and make as much noise as they want all weekend trumps my right to enjoy a relatively relaxing couple of days after a long work week...how?

Keep the volume down so I can actually hear my TV or stereo and not have my windows rattle and I'm OK. Obviously, these people believe it's their privilege to do that.

Is their spoiled, immature attitude something we're supposed to applaud, EV? I guess this is one "principle" I'll never understand.

Anonymous said...

Yikes. It's a little scary that he says, "At Midnight we will go to the Apt. of the person behind this."

And what will they do? This guy isn't helping the cause for music in the park!

I'm a veteran of the EV and have likely lived here a lot longer than any of these kids who like to rage in the park. Have your fun. But you've got to think of your neighbors. If you research the history of TSP, you'll see it was never intended to be a non-stop concert hall with amplified music.

glamma said...

Do you feel this was about the jazz shows or just the punk shows? Just curious.
Also, you did consciously decide to live next to a public park, right?

Shawn Chittle said...

Quiet weekend? On LES?

You're looking for Vermont... take the FDR all the way up and catch the 278. Jump on the 95, then take 91 at New Haven, and head to Greenfield.

There is a Vermont State forest there that is very quiet. If some bears ruffle the leaves, I'd suggest you not ask them to keep it down.

I do this a few times a year, but with winter coming I prefer Florida. It's really quiet out on the Intracoastal.

To get there, yah, I just recommend flying.

The Coolest Wins said...

No, John M., don't you get it? The East Village didn't exist until the punk/crust punk/anachro-punk/punk-nuevo movement. Therefore, anyone who doesn't want to hear this music anytime at unlimited volume is a yuppie, rich, over-privileged former suburbanite who's ruining the "true" neighborhood.

LiberationNYC said...

So basically it's going to be the same group of unbathed people who protest everything that's not like it was in 1982. STFU already.

Anonymous said...

I think people who live near the park fully realize there will be public music events, but you've got to have some limits and the amount and the volume of the music. I love The Coolest Wins remark about the East Village not existing before the punk/crust punk/anachro-punk/punk-nuevo movement. He makes a great point! The park is to be shared by all, and it would be great if the city made up a schedule of concerts that included all types of music and reflected the diversity of the neighborhood. We've got people here who love salsa, Afro-Cuban, jazz, pop, rock, metal, country... the list goes on. Let's have concerts for everyone during the summer months.

Lisa said...

Penley is a thug who thinks his is the only true and correct vision for the EV - which seems to be that this neighborhood was never ANYTHING but a magnet for unwashed, ill-educated, violent morons who fervently believe their right to be assholes trumps all others. If they really think that, they should go live in Paris - the French would welcome them with open arms into their riots against positively everything. Once a loser...

Anonymous said...

It's funny how this blog has become a place for all the different groups to just hate each other.

Between the threats on bikers, yuppies, college students, punks, crusties, newbies, etc etc, it makes me wonder if anyone who comments on this site can ever be truly happy living in this neighborhood - or any neighborhood for that matter! (I think probably not.)

Sad state of affairs, but I guess people need a good anonymous outlet.

EV Grieve said...

@anon 10:27

While it may not always seem that way, I still love living in this neighborhood.

John Penley said...

I love pissing these Yuppies off ! The more they trash me me for organizing stuff the happier I am. Nobody said this is about just Punk Rock only you jerkoff real estate developers did. Message to Susan S. we are not going to do anything illegal at your apt. just Yell Trick or Treat.

Whose Fuckin Park ? Our Fuckin Park !!!! HAPPY HALLOWEEN YUPPIES THE SYSTEM IS FALLING APART AND YOU AHOLES ARE GOING TO BE LIVING IN TOMPKINS SQUARE PARK SOON !!!!

Anonymous said...

Will LES JEWELS BE THERE ?? OR IS THIS ANOTHER YIPPIE STATE OF THE ART HALLOWEEN POT PARTY ( PLEASE NO RAG WEED THIS TIME)

john penley said...

If you Yupppie Tea Party Republicans want to see some photos of other LES "Losers" that I have taken in the LES over the last 30 years follow this link to my Tamiment Library archive. I am a thug loser but I am a legendary LES photographer whether you Yuppie soon to be Homeless Tea baggers like it or not !http://blogs.nyu.edu/library/sp.collections/2010/06/john_penley_photographs_collec_1.html

Anonymous said...

I ask this in all sincerity: Can you work as a beat photographer for a yuppie newspaper like The New York Times and still be considered an anarchist? Just asking! I am curious to see what people think. It seems like the two worlds don't mesh.

chris flash said...

Hey John M:

You said: "And once again, I ask the question....how does their right to gather in an open space and make as much noise as they want all weekend trumps my right to enjoy a relatively relaxing couple of days after a long work week...how?"

You are waayyy off John. Our events in Tompkins Square Park are held on SOME weekends over the course of SIX months a year and run from 2:00-6:00pm. That hardly counts as "all weekend" making "as much noise" as we want!

We have already taken steps to muffle sound and reduce volume at our events in the park. We DO respect our neighbors and we do NOT need another fucking police state in our park to divide the community against itself as happened from the late 80s-early 90s (where you around then?)

And we certainly do NOT need nor will we stand by or tolerate the attempted political ascendance of one Susan Stetzer, who thinks she can get elected to the city council by way of getting neighbors to fight each other over the use of Tompkins Square Park!!

Like Antonio Pagan before her, Stetzer will only betray her supporters once she gets what she wants. Don't you fucking get it????

We will be in the park this Saturday + Sunday. If you feel that the volume is too high, please let us know and we will do whatever we can to make an adjustment.

Kurt said...

@John Penley, your protest are just pathetic and are generally attended by fewer people than the average pickup basketball game. Of course you're going to have a big turn out on Halloween. If there was no protesr there would still be a big turnout. It's Halloween for God's sake. You're like the rooster that believes the sun comes up because it crows.

I dare you to have your protest the Sunday after Halloween. It'll be like all your other lame protest.

john penley said...

Kurt I suggest you go to The Villager and search for Donut Riot and Economakis protests which I organized. Why will none of you Yuppie Scum put up your full names on your comments ? I know because I am a thug ?

Marty Wombacher said...

Will there be cupcakes available?

WB said...

A bandshell might help with the sound. Just sayin'.

Cynthia De Moss said...

HELLO SANE NEW YORKERS
Yes, it is true that this stretch of NYC geography was, in fact, defined by the artists, musicians and others who have stood stead-fast over the years. So sorry to have to state the obvious.
As for John P.: Does the fact that he is a respected free-lance journalist and internationally recognized activist really disturb you so much that you resort to sophomoric name-calling.
Because the only thing that ignorant stants proclaims to activists and free-speech advocates is that you are exactly what Penley and others have adroitly called you. You say the word yuppie three times outloud. I dare you.
Blessings on these artists, activists and intellectuals of the real New York City who simply want an unfettered use of their rightful landscape, the park that they call their own.
Sounds alot like a battle of the wills and, if that is the case, then the newbies with sticks up their asses win indeed lose every time. Don't you get it? These artists and activists don't give up. This is THEIR PARK and they WILL OWN IT. Why not join in the celebration, since the attempts at condescending rationalisations simply will not stand.
Like Chris Flash said, we will work with you, if you just act like fellow human beings and New Yorkers at that. I realize that is a tall order. Let us rise to the occassion, just the same.

Shawn Chittle said...

John Penley's living, breathing protesters, if there are 3, 30, or 300 of them, have more heart and soul than 10 billion anonymous, cowardly, internet "commenters."

Penley shouldn't even respond to you cockroaches but he gives everyone a fair shot cause he's a lot nicer than most people.

No one wants Randall's Island level sound in TSP, build a proper bandshell and everyone is happy.

BUILD IT!

vagabond said...

To all of those who moved into the Loisaida and were expecting the Upper East Side.... Loisaida was a place for those who wanted to live in a different way and not be harassed by outsiders or even looked at as outsiders at all... The Loisaida was a place for the freaks to gather and rub up against one another... It was a place that not only respected difference but celebrated and encouraged it... It was a community of freaks banding together to create a freak community of immense diversity...

This tribe of freaks coming together is not much different from the waves of waves of immigration of various ethnic groups that came and continue to come to NYC... Those immigrant groups looked for ethnic neighborhoods where they could feel safe and not feel like outsiders... The Jews did it, the Italians did it, the Germans did it, the Polish did it, the Chinese did it, the Puerto Ricans did it, even the African Americans (who were not immigrants) did it...

The freaks of the Loisaida were following in a tradition of gathering in a way to protect themselves and to have a place of their own... The diversity of the Loisaida and the commodification of what came out of the Loisaida (Spoken Word, Punk, Hip-Hop, Graffiti, Avant-Garde Theater, etc...) made the Loisaida a cool place for non-freaks to want to live...

So the non-freaks move in - in their 20's and because the Loisaida is a place of tolerance the non-freaks are welcome... Then the non-freaks get into their 30's and start getting married and having kids and instead of renting a studio in a 5th floor walk-up tenement they buy a $1.2 mil. 2 bedroom condo and all of a sudden what was cool @ 20 is now an annoyance @ 30 and by the time the non-freaks (who were welcomed by the Loisiaida) are 40 they are calling the cops on the freaks because of the noise and complaining to politicians about the deteriorating conditions of "community"...

The majority who live in this city now are people who want don't want freaks around... Don't want them to have a place... Don't want them to exist... Are wiping out the places where they gather and live... It happened in Soho, it happened in the West Village, it happened/is happening in Williamsburg, in Harlem, in the South Bronx... It seems that as fast as the freaks find a place the non-freaks find a way to strangle the life out of it...

But one day when NYC has finally paved it's path over us freaks and the entire city becomes a safe respected shopping mall... Then you non-freaks will have what you always wanted... A suburb without a lawn and a shopping mall @ your doorstep...

NYC the most vital and exciting and diverse collection of freaks in the world will not be able to create and as a result of that the non-freaks will not have the fruits of these freaks to commodify. Because the freaks will not exist... And you non-freaks will have to find another way to pay that $1.2mil. condo mortgage...

When you default on that mortgage and your the system starts to crumble for you and that condo building becomes an abandoned building... The freaks that were in hiding will show up... Squat your $1.2 mil. condo and generate fruits once again...

The Loisaida is not yours... You are passing through... Remember that the next time you call the puh-leez or the politrixters to complain... Your kind will not remain... And not because we freaks are going to do anything about it or ever had the power to do anything about it... You will destroy yourselves, you need no help from us... But don't worry... we freaks will be here to forgive you of your past transgressions and show you how to live another way...

Bowery Boy said...

Hate the rich yuppies, if you want. Hate the loud crusties, if you want. But don't hate on EV Grieve.

It may seem like folks come here just to post angry comments that hate on anyone and everyone, but this site serves a vital service where we can work out our differences... well ok, at least we can make eachother aware of what the differences are.

Solutions aren't always possible, if no one wants to compromise (here we're no different than the politicians we ALL love to hate). But what's the option - working out differences through violence on our streets? That's not a good solution for anyone.

I haven't seen a grown up response in this thread yet, but that's no reason to pick on EV Grieve.

Kurt said...

@John,I never called you a thug. I'm really not intimidated by losers like you.

What happened to all the protest you were going to organize against NYU? On one hand you claim to hate NYU and then on the other the only reason people know your name is because you donated your entire archive to NYU. You are a sad man who needs to try and stay relevant by organizing these sad little protest. You have nothing else in your sad life except the other losers in TSP. What happened when you tried to leave the neighborhood?

Anonymous said...

John Penley is a waste of space. He's just upset because his room mate kicked him out and he has been homeless. Everyone is a yuppie if they have a stable job. I hate him and I am a activist!

DAVID PEEL said...

DIE YUPPIE SKUM!! -- YOU'RE NOTHING BUT BRATTY 'HOOD INVADERS & MANIC DEPRESSED NEUROTICS WHO CANNOT ADJUST TO YOUR FORMER MIDDLE CLASS NEIGHBORHOODS, SO YOU HIDE LIKE RATS IN THE EAST VILLAGE WITH YOUR HIGH PAYING JOBS AND SICKNESSES AS TRENDY BASTARDS WHO DON'T BELONG HERE BUT BUY YOUR WAY INTO OUR CULTURE ON YOUR OWN SCUMMY TERMS.
GO BACK TO SURBURBIA YOU WHITE TRASH & YUPPIE SCUM! YOU PIGS COMPLAIN ABOUT OUR MUSIC CULTURE IN TOMPKINS SQUARE PARK. MAY YOU SPOILED BRATS ROT IN HELL, AMEN ... SINCERELY, D.PEEL-NYC

Goggla said...

This is slightly off-topic, but interesting - Tompkins Square pre-dates everything built up around it. There's a nice, concise history of it here:

http://www.lespi-nyc.org/history/a-history-of-tompkin-square-park.html

john penley said...

Just to set the record straight Kurt Tamiment Library is an independent public library in Bobst libary. It is a radical labor and is open to the public unlike the rest of Bobst. There is a huge amount of LES historical stuff in it and even Yuppies like yourself can go see the exhibite. As for NYU just google my name ans NYU and look at all the stuff I said about NYU students on the record. As for you anonymous activist if you hate me so much and are really an activist why don't you have the balls to put your name on your comment ? Are you a tea party activist ? About the NY Times I freelanced or them and was paid very little for it but activists all over the hood called me for years to get their stories in the Times and I did. My roommate never kicked me out I left on my own because after the donut riot the 9th pct. was threatening to kill me on the street. For the record I am not homeless and have a job. There is nothing bad about not having a home or a job and many of you yuppies are going to know what it feels like soon. There is a big divide in the LES between the haves and the have nots and if it gets worse your probably going to have to move to Jersey. Vagabond Beaumont put up the most intelligent comment about the hood I have ever read on EV G. David Peel you are my hero hope you can play at TSP on Witches night.

chris flash said...

This is for those who dare to trash John Penley. I've known John for about 20 years and I can say that everything he does is sincere and from the heart. He has nothing personal to gain from his political activism and he has always been generous to his community.

That's a hell of a lot more than can be said for any of the AnonymASSes who post negative remarks about him. If only you cretins had a fraction of John's devotion to righteous causes, perhaps your lives might have some meaning.

chris flash said...

David Peel WILL be playing in Tompkins Square Park this Saturday!!

JUMP!!
JUMP!!
JUMP!!

Kurt said...

"If only you cretins had a fraction of John's devotion to righteous causes, perhaps your lives might have some meaning."

If thinly veiled threats at a woman is what gives your life meaning than you and John Penley are living life to the fullest

chris flash said...

Hey Kurt:

"If only you cretins had a fraction of John's devotion to righteous causes, perhaps your lives might have some meaning."

I suppose this quote could be construed as a "threat" only by someone whose inadequacy, insignificance and selfishness has been exposed.

Don't you have SOMEthing better to do????

Erin said...

I know it's lame but I HATE the drum circles in Tompkins Square park. They're obnoxious, super loud, and interfere with any attempt at a peaceful picnic or sunbathing session. I'd rather a band event every night than have to listen to those girls/guys.

john penley said...

Once again Kurt nobody threatened her. If anyone tried to do anything physical to her or her Apt. I as the thug that I am would kick their ass. Anyone who knows me knows that I do not advocate violence against women. WE are going to her Apt. to make some noise and Yell Trick or Treat. As someone who gets a paycheck from the taxpayers when she takes an unpopular action like this she is subject to a First Amendment protest. If you want to put your real name up we will be happy to have a debate with you. Why don't you address Vagabond Beaumont's comments instead of making up dumb ass things about me. Note to Lisa R. when the woman who your late husband got shot in Iraq came to NYC it was me who got Colin Monihan to do the story about her for the Times if you don't believe me ask him. I also think you did the right thing for helping her.

warcry said...

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE move BACK to the suburbs! LEAVE OUR HALLOWED GROUND WHERE WE LOVE FREELY!!!! Your intolerance for the brilliance and visionary brings down the common equation to YOUR MEDIOCRACY! IT is terribly FRIGHTENING - scarier than ANYTHING WE WILL SEE ON HALLOWEEN! Your McCulture of homegenous standardized conformist creativity CRUSHING SOUL CRUSHING LIFE NEGATING INTOLERANCE DOES NOT BELONG IN OUR HOMETOWN!!!! WHY DO YOU LIVE NEXT TO TSQPK instead of in JERSEY Or SUBURBIA!???? YOU WANNA WATCH TV?! INSTEAD? WATCH YOUR GODDAMNED TV IN THE HELLSCAPE OF YOUR CHOICE! WHICH is the stripmall gated community of AMERIKKKA that you have ALREADY COLONIZED!!! WHY should we TOLERATE your INTOLERANCE!!!! Leave our oasis of LOVE & CREATIVE BRILLIANCE ALONE! YOU CREEP!!!!

Anonymous said...

Love and Oasis? A man was STABBED 5 times the other day in the park by skaters for his IPOD AND WALLET. And if there is so much love- why do I get harrassed and bothered everytime I walk through that park. Why cna I not just walk there peacefully? I grew up in the neighborhood and I actually know many of you activists- but I am afraid to walk through that park without holding my purse VERY closely to me because I fear it may get stolen- or worse- I might get stabbed. Can't there be silent protests? Peaceful protests? I believe the East Village should not change- I love the way it WAS 20 years ago, but please showing up at some ladies house in the middle of the night to yell "Trick or Treat" does not prove maturity. It will never get anywhere but a few arrests by the pigs.

john penley said...

Anonymous I had not heard about the stabbing but it does prove my point about the gap between the have and the have nots. When I moved to the LES this was an everyday thing and as the capitalist system melts down it is going to become more common in the hood. If you ever see me at TSP introduce yourself to me and I will let all the "other Thugs" know that I have your back. By the way, people have been going to "ladies" houses all over the world on Halloween for years and Yelling Trick or Treat !!!

Anonymous said...

is this when they all protest in front of that huge ugly building on 9th and B? I really hate that building

DJ SHIMMY said...

who are these people that move in across the street from tompkins square park and expect peace & quiet?! please move to the upper east side. it's obvious that you can afford it, so stop ruining the CULTURE of NEW YORK CITY.

Gerard said...

My memory of Tompkins Square Park goes back to the sixties. There was a bandshell where bands played free concerts, a slightly elevated dog run, basketball and handball courts, and the kiddie playgrounds with swings. There was always a flood of people who gathered there from all parts of the country/world. It was also used as a place to stage protests of all sorts. Yep, it even was a great park before the Punk-era of the `80s. The area around TSP has never been an oasis of solitude, except maybe in the library - shhhh! So many families were displaced from the LES area in the seventies by arson-mad, insurance-cashing landlords, yeah, just like a mini South Bronx. Though my family was not directly affected, I still hold a grudge. The neighborhood to me is now barely recognizable. Are those fortunate souls who can now afford to live in the area attempting to pacify the park? If this park`s activities irk you so much, why not move to Central Park West? You know you can afford it! There you will have a nice reservoir to jog around, with humans more to your liking. Just imagine the sweet sound of chirping robins!

Shawn Chittle said...

I second that amazing post by Vagabond. Wow, just read so beautifully, one of the best comments of all time on E.V. Grieve.

Hats off to you! (Takes hat off)

John M said...

Hi, chris flash. As I originally said, "Keep the volume down so I can actually hear my TV or stereo and not have my windows rattle and I'm OK." And I am. And during performances like that, no problem. Thank you for your consideration of the folks who live around here, I appreciate it.

From Penley's adolescent talk about "cops with sound meters", I assumed he wants unlimited volume, and I think I'm correct in that.

After 25 years of living where I do, I've come to realize that people like him and the drunken kids in limos who puke and piss all over the neighborhood are merely two sides of the same coin. Neither one cares about anyone but themselves.

When I first moved here in the mid 80s, there were a lot of old folks who had been here since the 1930s and 40s. They talked of how beautiful the park was and how the neighborhood was a family-oriented place where people looked out for each other and respected each other. chris flash fits that description of an old EVer; Penley is just another self-aggrandizing jerk.

john penley said...

Actually John M I never said anything about unlimited sound. The loudest concert of the summer is the Charlie Parker Festival. I hope you are equally upset about that. The solution to this problem is rebuilding the bandshell which would direct the sound away from 7th ST. Ask any homeless person at the park who always has some change or a cigarette or is willing to help them with legal aid suggestions or whatever and they will tell you it is me. This all started because the cops decided to use a sound meter and threaten us at the 20 anniversary of the riot concert. We took a protest to their doorstep and dragged them into Federal Court to do it. After that they backed off. Now someone who has political ambitions has started it up again. We have a first amendment right to protest her actions. I am a Vietnam era vet and I fought for that right and I will continue to do it again. I may be a jerk but I am not the kind of person who does not stick up for what I believe in. As times get harder and the economy gets worse if you lose your job I will be the first to offer you a couple of bucks and any other help I can offer if you end up on the street. Chris good me bad get it !

Anonymous said...

In response to the above post two things. The band shell was awful for amplified music - I speak from a lot of experience - and, while the Charlie Parker festival has the largest sound system, it also has far and away the largest audience of any of the shows since Wigstock. The weird thing about this thread is the punk shows are not that amplified and generally under attended these days. If NYPD had sound meters out there would be no problem - Parks Department has very strict sound pressure rules. For what its worth I've been in the park as long as most and spend hours there everyday. While I get annoyed at certain shows, Christian rock bands with good drummers and out of tune vocals, basically the same hobbyist punk rock metal all band after band all afternoon, overall the park accommodates: one guy pounding on his djembe for hours (annoying), a saxophone playing the A section of Somewhere Over The Rainbow for hours (strangely interesting), some good congas having a jam session, the Frenchman with the Uke, the occasional religious revival, a generic panorma of punks, bums, strollers, teenagers with banjos and the current army of cellphone people. What I'd like to see is some of the punk shows finding acts that don't play punk so it's not the same fuzzy guitars all day and the cops preventing the Christians giving away food - which is admirable - from blasting their mediocre recorded music from their truck - which is annoying.

Off topic this is great blog. Kudos!

Anonymous said...

I've lived on the park for 20 years. I've never had a problem with the concerts until the past few years. It's no so much the volume (although I agree with John M. that there are times I'd like to listen to music of my own choice and not be forced to listen to whatever is being played in the park) but the frequency of shows. This summer wasn't as bad but the past 2-3 years have seen an exponential growth with some weekends having concerts on both days, not to mention the occasional weekday evening event. While I personally don't always appreciate all of the music (Christian covers of bad top 40 hits, I'm looking at you), I appreciate the diversity and am welcome the fact that the park allows concerts. I attend some myself and other times am happy to "attend" them from the comfort of my couch. But I think that whoever schedules the permits needs to be aware of how many concerts are being scheduled in a given week/month to balance the desires of concert organizers with the rights of local tenants to also enjoy their weekend in their apartments if they so desire.

Our Lady of Perpetual PMS said...

Ok, It's REALLY rare that there are concerts on both weekend days. The punk shows take place btwn May thru October and there are an average of only about 12 shows btwn this time period!
My show, HALLOWEEN FREAKFEST, is this Sunday. I have been told where to keep my decibel levels too. If any of you people complaining would like to come out of your apartments and enjoy the show, please feel free. The forecast is 70-ish and freaky! Feel free to have a respectful conversation w/me as well. I'm not some unreasonable, unapproachable ass. And neither are Chris Flash nor John Penley. I don't feel the need to put my full name on this comment because I don't even use my real name on Facebook. I just like a certain amount of privacy on the internet. And considering that I will be standing on a stage on Sunday afternoon in the park, you'll know who I am, I'd assume.
I feel no need to promote to you, but I make my shows punk and VARIETY, because it's what I want to do. And we love dressing up in costume for this show! As someone who grew up in the punk scene, I honestly get tired of seeing the standard male testosterone-driven line up of standard punk most of the time. Which is also why I do my ALPHA WOMEN ATTACK THE LES in the park the last weekend of June, highlighting downtown female performers (not exclusively.)
John, as mentioned, I can't make the Halloween protest. I always march in the parade (I actually march w/the Young Feminist Task Force) and we do something political, humorous, directly relating to headlines trying to also make an an impression on the average parade goer. Plus I have a paid performance gig, and you know how that goes - as an artist I take those when I can! But I have to add, that as a woman, saying you'll go to a woman's apt. on midnite on a crazy night like Halloween, would naturally give any woman the heebie-jeebies! Regardless of your intent. I'm just sayin', ok?
Thank you to anyone who tries to keep this debate rational and intelligent. We, as artists and activists, are not doing anything bad by having several seasonal afternoon shows. Once again, I have found things like screeching, never-ending poetry and male nudity @ the HOWL, disgustingly loud frat-like bars w/zero respect for their neighbors to more detrimental.
I don't patronize places that would offend my neighbors late @ night, night after night. We're talking a few hours on several weekend afternoons @ a reasonable volume.
And yes, a new bandshell or this elusive flat bed ruck the Parks Dept. have somewhere would solve this!
I'll have more to say say on the stage I'm sure, and I'll be writing a petition to sign as well, I just have to work on the language.
Daniella aka Our Lady of Perpetual PMS

john penley said...

Just to show that I do listen to what people say especially Our Lady who I have a lot of respect for I am not going to lead a march to the Apt. I am happy to announce that the team who went with me to DC to do anti grand jury witch hunt on the FBI HQ will be doing a projection and video taping of the Halloween party and protest in TSP around 11 pm. I do however reserve the right to do a protest on the street at her apt. if I see sound meters and cops show up at the park. Has anyone noticed the intelligence level difference between those who attack me and call me names and complain about the concerts and those who have supported the concerts ? Anyway I am really enjoying this and feel this has been very positive in that it has allowed all sides of the hood to use FREE SPEECH. THUG LIFE in TSP JP

Anonymous said...

I am glad to hear you won't be leading a march to that lady's apartment. It's unnecessary, and I think you'll accomplish more by holding your protest at the park. The conversation can get ugly on these boards but it is great to see people listening and learning from one another.

Jiggers Turner said...

Quit scaring the yuppies John! I realize your tough language endears you to the kids and increases your radical folk hero status. However try to spread some love brother and remember southern charm. You accomplish more with honey than vinegar.

Anonymous said...

I've lived in the EV for well over 20 years, and I'm not a yuppie. Why is it that anyone who disagrees with the punk rock types is a yuppie? Some of my Puerto Rican neighbors who have lived on my block for decades think all the punks and crusties and really yuppies! Guess it is all a matter of perspective.

Jill said...

I've inquired about what it would take to get a bandshell and was advised that the Parks Dept has zero budget for anything like that. The renovation of the playground was funded by a private entity and new bandshells going up in other parks are also privately funded.

It would be great if someone would take up this cause and find a sponsor with cash or a politician with pork to build us a bandshell. I've got loads of ideas but no time. Anybody out there who wants to take this project on?

Anonymous said...

can some of you please explain exactly is a "yuppie". i know what the initials stand or but elaborate on this. am i missing something? also that park has not been nice in over 50 yrs.

Anonymous said...

i dont get it. i lived in NYC more than 1/2 of my life. & also in the EV. i never heard of this guy, john penley. i was also a published photographer. go figure. maybe hes just someone w/a big mouth??

kike Lillo said...

In response to those who oppose J. Penley: When they have nothing on you, they resort to personal insults. They don't really know you, do they?

john penley said...

In response to Jill's post. I honestly believe that if we were given an ok from CB 3 and the Parks Dept. to build a new bandshell a very large amount of bands and others who want to make it happen would put together some massive benefits and other fundraisers and it would happen in time. I have a vision of a high tech solar powered acoustic sound with built in sound system and gated protection bandshell that would be a model for others. A gazebo type structure might be an option as well. Thanks for looking into this and if you could get some kind of agreement on it I am sure the community would make it happen. It could once again be a central focus that would bring people together like the old bandshell was. By the way I was arrested and spent 3 days in jail when the old one was destroyed.

Jill said...

I think it will be easy to get cb3 to support a bandshell but what we need first is a real plan and funding to present to them.

john penley said...

Jill it is going to be impossible to get people to start raising money until people know for sure that CB3 and Parks are going to allow a bandshell to be rebuilt. That has to come first. On another subject many of my friends think a lot of these comments about me are coming from COPS. I think some of them are but most are not. If they are using NYPD computers to do it they may be in trouble !! Can you spell LAWSUIT Donut Eaters ?

Anonymous said...

We all need to spend way less time on the Internet and more time out in the community. Get outside today, say hello to a neighbor and lend a hand to someone who could use it. That's what I'm doing right now. See ya!

Anonymous said...

Hello
I was a long time resident of the E.Vil. Loved it much and was evicted. If you'd like the story, I will tell.
John Penley asked me to read the postings. I am just coming off of a jag reading considerations of women who put it on their backs, after being flat on their own backs, and went with husbands re: manifest destiny. Frontier Women. Pioneer Women.
All the while, sh-t was going down in the park we are talking about. Post Civil War era.
Tompkins Square is/was one of the first public places presenting "20th Century Brutality"
The lanes for walking are circular and have many erratic intersections.
Compare this to Union Square Park where all lanes are linear and intersect at right angles.
Why?
The powers that were learned that organizers protesting could easily flee from the horses and foot cops wanting to stop protests in Union Square. Easier to navigate, easier to know where your going, easier to get the f out.
Tompkins was redesigned to make orientation difficult and hence, protesters were more easily apprehended. Also, hill were constructed n an effort to cut off horizon lines. Can't see as easily. Consider Union Sq again. Flat.
Such as it is, we have been blindsided by many erratic and non-navigatible considerations to allow our voices being heard.
I've always been one for the straight path when I am being chased and wonder why it is we can't return to a time when we'd a place for presentation and demonstration of art, politics, community.
Forget about a personality - i.e. penley.
That's not what this is about. So lay off.
Rebuild the bandshell.
Regard our neighborhood and community as a place
in which relevant issues are considered and debated.
The noise is beneficial...a mantra, so to speak. Let the beat lull you into speculation surrounding the issues. We need to think again.
Tompkins Square (a recent prudential ad promoting an e.vil pad for a cool two mil presented
the park as Thompkins) is a place where the paths were made twisted (it was renovated after recognizing what could go down at Union) is a place where the twisted can make a life real.
Just like that......
a real life

Anonymous said...

Hello
I was a long time resident of the E.Vil. Loved it much and was evicted. If you'd like the story, I will tell.
John Penley asked me to read the postings. I am just coming off of a jag reading considerations of women who put it on their backs, after being flat on their own backs, and went with husbands re: manifest destiny. Frontier Women. Pioneer Women.
All the while, sh-t was going down in the park we are talking about. Post Civil War era.
Tompkins Square is/was one of the first public places presenting "20th Century Brutality"
The lanes for walking are circular and have many erratic intersections.
Compare this to Union Square Park where all lanes are linear and intersect at right angles.
Why?
The powers that were learned that organizers protesting could easily flee from the horses and foot cops wanting to stop protests in Union Square. Easier to navigate, easier to know where your going, easier to get the f out.
Tompkins was redesigned to make orientation difficult and hence, protesters were more easily apprehended. Also, hill were constructed n an effort to cut off horizon lines. Can't see as easily. Consider Union Sq again. Flat.
Such as it is, we have been blindsided by many erratic and non-navigatible considerations to allow our voices being heard.
I've always been one for the straight path when I am being chased and wonder why it is we can't return to a time when we'd a place for presentation and demonstration of art, politics, community.
Forget about a personality - i.e. penley.
That's not what this is about. So lay off.
Rebuild the bandshell.
Regard our neighborhood and community as a place
in which relevant issues are considered and debated.
The noise is beneficial...a mantra, so to speak. Let the beat lull you into speculation surrounding the issues. We need to think again.
Tompkins Square (a recent prudential ad promoting an e.vil pad for a cool two mil presented
the park as Thompkins) is a place where the paths were made twisted (it was renovated after recognizing what could go down at Union) is a place where the twisted can make a life real.
Just like that......
a real life

Anonymous said...

Can the previous poster clarify what he means about women putting "it" on their backs then being flat on their backs? And husbands and manifest destiny? Just curious. I am confused!

Anonymous said...

Sorry yuppies, but if you move to a diverse but if you move to a neighborhood full of creativity, life and diversity and expect it to be all placid and dull it's YOUR problem. Go back to the Upper East Side or the Hamptons or wherever the hell it is you came from before you became convinced by Time Out New York that the LES was the "in" place to live. This is not only about the "punks" and "crusties", but the working class families and small business owners you price out of the neighborhood.You get all snarky on the internet because you have nothing of substance to say in your everyday lives. You're the ones who need to STFU already.

Joanie said...

Use your earplugs. Set a cut-off time for loud partying. Find a peaceful, non-punitive way to make it work. Come on, did you never bust out of your shell before you plugged into your devices? And what if one of your neighbors finds your TV or stereo (are there still stereos?) invasive? We live in NYC and we have to cooperate with each other. Someone's toe is always getting stepped on. Tread lightly.

Anonymous said...

Long time local musician who has played the park for going on 30 years. I'm 100% against rebuilding a band shell. The flat bed stage style in evidence last weekend for the punk show is perfect for that level of crowd. Charlie Parker Fest and HOWL bring in big stages but when they're gone so is the stage. That space is used all week long, little kids playing soccer, generic locals standing around on cell phones, etc ... I'm 100% in favor of shows, would like to see more than just punk metal and Christian rock - Kavalant (sp?) center's South Asian music show a couple of years ago was great and didn't have a raised stage at all - and am against whatever new Parks regulations are around to force a lower DB level but a fixed structure in the middle of the park is selfish at best. For what it's worth I'm a native of Manhattan and first played in the park in 1981.

Anonymous said...

oh...sorry about being confounding
I've been researching frontier women.
Ironic Laura Ingalls Wilder is my touchpoint, irony in that it's been concluded she wrote it with her daughter who was an expat, hanging with Hemingway, Stein, et. al. Rose was the oldest Vietnam war correspondent, about 76 when she was writing during the war. Ironic, also, as the Little House book are intended for younger people. ANd there one of the few good sources for homesteading. The Ingalls were libertarians.
So, what I meant was, women were putting out for their husbands on their backs and then they had to hump it out by wagon drawn by horse or oxen or even pushing their stuff in a hand cart...with the kids... so to speak carrying it on their backs.
While not many women are published, there are many original documents available on the web, scanned handwritten items. fascinating.
The era of manifest destiny corresponds to a time when Tompkins was getting it's legs on.
There were protests against the civil war in Tompkins....war protests...communist rally's as the west was being descended on and natives were being displaced and all the other yah yah.
Thanks for asking for clarification.

chris flash said...

Today and yesterday, we had two great events in Tompkins Square Park. It wasn't just punk: We had a diverse audience at both events, which were composed of various performers, speakers and artists. At the same time, elsewhere in the park there was a fundraiser for the Earth School and a Halloween Dog Parade.

This past weekend clearly demonstrates that Tompkins Square Park is EVERYone in the neighborhood, not just for those who like or do not like dogs, those who do or do not have children, those who play or do not play baseball or basketball, or for those who like or do not like a certain genre of music.

Those of us who live in New York City MUST accept this fact of life. Those who fail to do so will always be miserable and will always have something to complain about....

Anonymous said...

Well said Chris Flash ! and just so everyone knows, it ain't just the punk shows they're after. Our esteemed community affairs det. Hernandez pulled the plug on the Earth Schools musical performances just as it was to get started, due to a sound permit snafu, and was quite the asshole about it. No leeway at all. Total bullshit, all around.

Lorcan Otway said...

Well... seeing as every one is so divided here... why don't we all get together for an event on the LES we can all agree on...
Theatre 80 Oct. 29th, an event with David Amaram, who played the last concert in the old TSP band shell... will perform with a number of Lord Buckley interpriters, to commemorate the last performance of this great comic - who had his caberet card taken at the Jazz Gallery, now Theatre 80, in October of 1960... it will be an evening of joy and hipsterism... let's celibrate the Lower East Side...
=)
Cheers, Lorcan
Theatre 80

john penley said...

In reply to musician who does not want a new Bandshell. I know where the kids play in the area of TSP where a new bandshell would be built. I am pretty sure one could be built that would be far enough back so it would not stop them from playing as they normally do in that area and it would be smaller than the old one. Possibly a gazebo that could be moveable with a forklift. It could be done without taking up any of the space the kids normally use. When the wooden stage that Flash uses is there it does not block the area kids play in. In regard to Hernandez it is time for him to retire or move to some other neighborhood he has been in the LES too long and needs go.

Anonymous said...

Movable gazebo would be fine and promoters would have the option of using it or not. There's just no justification for a permanent structure in the center of the park as many of the regular shows: Charlie Parker, the crazy circus, bring in their own stages and are better off for it. And I've watched one group of kids playing soccer while another plays baseball. Leave the space open.

Regarding Chris Flash's comment: That would depend on ones definition of punk. All bands with fuzzy guitars. No jazz. No reggae. No Latin. No hip hop - though it is hard to find a live hip hop band. The shows were good, from what I saw of them, I just think the promoters should make more of an effort to diversify. Get the guys who play congas east of the dog run to do a set. Get the Frenchman with the Uke and get him to do a couple songs. Ask around as it would be very easy to find really good jazz players who would do a set. Even scare up some kid classical musicians. It would make the parade of fuzzy guitars sound better. And cater to a larger demographic then just us rockers.

chris flash said...

We are planning even more diverse events for 2011. In the good old bad old days, I remember a show at the old bandshell that included reggae, salsa, hardcore punk and even polka music, in a nod to the area's Ukrainian population, all at the same event. There was something for everybody back then and we want to continue with that tradition.

Keeping the neighborhood united in the face of the rampant gentrification that has displaced countless persons, local businesses and performance venues is what we are all about....

Joanie said...

Don't grieve! Organize! I love this blog. It has encouraged a lot of healthy debate. Some unhealthy as well. Dialogue between disparate opinions helps us all to sort it out. So I will put in my two cents. Thanks to Our Perpetual Lady of PMS for putting the kibosh on the midnight Halloween visit to the contentious woman across from the park. We need to be sensitive to other human beings, even if we don't like them. Anyone that thinks being an anarchist entitles them to crash-boom-bang-push-shove etc., well, I suggest a wider swath of reading on anarchist principles. Secondly, I don't like the use of the word “Yuppie.” For one thing it seems sooooo passĂ©, and secondly, it sets up a dialectic of Us and Them. Such divisiveness is no longer, nor has it ever been, useful to achieving understanding. Likewise, I am disenchanted with the use of "pigs" and other disparaging language about cops. Ya know, I've had my big differences with police. But in the end, they are exploited workers like many of the rest of us. For however much they are misguided in their belief in a police state, they are as oppressed by the system as anyone who doesn't buy into it. I mention all these things in reference to Tompkins Square Park, which, in its hoary tradition, has always been a hotbed of political activism and debate. And ever shall be. Could never be any different. it's hardwired into the soil. Joanie Fritz Zosike

john penley said...

lightning rod
n.
1. A grounded metal rod placed high on a structure to prevent damage by conducting lightning to the ground.
2. One that attracts and absorbs powerful, typically negative feelings and reactions. "[His] business dealings have become a lightning rod for criticism" (Walter Shapiro] John Penley

chris flash said...

Hi Joanie!

For the sake of accuracy, the woman in question, Susan Stetzer, an employee (not member) of Community Board Three, who serves at the pleasure of Councilmember Rosie Mendez, has repeatedly lied about living along Seventh Street, across the street from the park, where, she has been claiming, she can hear music in her kitchen. She actually lives in the Ageloff Towers apts, at the corner of Third Street + Avenue A.

This is not the only lying we have discovered on her part. (We've never mentioned her role in the scam in which she got a piece of $300k in Con Edison commission money!)

We are of the understanding that Stetzer aspires to take over Mendez' seat when Mendez is done. Seems like Stetzer is well on her way, as a pandering, lying wannabe politician seeking office by dividing a neighborhood against itself.