Thursday, December 13, 2012

Here's where the Santas will be on Saturday

A reader sent along the zones for SantaCon on Saturday...


...and they are expected in the East Village between 4:30 and 7 ... "Have fun anywhere in the green zone," according to the directive. Pay no mind to us residents! You're just having fun!


Per the reader:

Although they have specific bars listed ... I imagine there will be Santas everywhere in the neighborhood. The other crappy thing is that the time frame (4:30-7:00) means that a lot of the Santa's probably won't go across to Brooklyn at 7pm and will just stay in the EV all night.

Also:

It might be nice to have a few places that volunteer to be "Santa-free zones" that could be publicized as safe places to go on Saturday.

I know that the Grassroots on St. Mark's won't serve any Santas... anywhere else?

Also, we understand that there at least two other separate Santa events here Saturday...

And noting the main photo on the SantaCon home page:

51 comments:

Shawn G. Chittle said...

Oh this is gonna be epic.

I will be camped out at Double Down see look on the face of those Santacon ladies when they get full view of the HARDCORE PORN they play on the TV monitors at Double Down Saloon.

Gives "Ho ho ho" all new meaning.

James Maher said...

Where's the evacuation zone?

nygrump said...

I haven't hung out at the Double Down since they had that fire...and they seem to have moved my favored seats in the windows

Spike said...

I was hoping all the Santa's would need to stock up on gifts at the 8th Annual DBA Craft Fair this Saturday from 2-8 pm , but it's not on the list of approved bars. Drat!

glue glassd said...

perhaps everyone that reads this blog ad is not fond of santacon should send an email to susan stetzer (sstetzer@cb3manhattan.org) expressing your feelings about santacon and the idiots without santa outfits that are here all the time.
we are one big party toilet down here!

Anonymous said...

What time is Hurricane Santi due to make landfall?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN8n99BUO-A

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't it be great if these Santas actually did something altruistic instead of running around drunk? There are so many charities right now that could use gifts for the neighborhood kids, or they could hand out food and socks and other supplies to the homeless. They could organize events with local hospitals. It's such a shame that all of this energy is wasted on partying.

Anonymous said...

Fuck me. I'll be stocked with supplies by 2 pm. Two boots movie marathon? 2 boots movie marathon.

Brian Van said...

Anonymous:
There is already a serious food collection effort within Santacon, as they require everyone to bring at least two cans of food. But I like your thinking and perhaps the organizers would be totally agreeable to that suggestion in future planning. It's more of a festival than a bar meetup, but NYC lacks the vast public spaces to serve a large crowd without price gouging... that's how it ends up at the bars all day. Merging in constructive public-service activities into the mix would be a welcome change. Then they only have time for a couple drinks before 7pm and there's many fewer wasted idiots in the mix. Plus, all the day-trippers won't like their drinking time interrupted by, you know, DECENCY, so they won't bother to make the trip. Win-win.

BT said...

True. Santa is supposed to give gifts, not get drunk. What projects around here could be accomplished with 100 santas?

I have a feeling quite a few of the santas would actually enjoy the chance to do some work/something good. I think it's just a question of leadership and a little organization. The raw numbers are there.


So... ideas for 100 santas for one hour?

pinhead said...

@Brian Van
Don't kid yourself. The "serious" food collection effort is an afterthought, a feeble attempt at polishing the image of what is nothing more than a pub crawl. It does not excuse nor mitigate the disrespectful behavior exhibited by past participants towards the neighborhoods they swarm and the people who live there. If altruism is the goal, there are plenty of outlets for an army of people in Santa suits, no alcohol necessary. Stop deluding yourself into thinking this event is anything more than it is.

Cosmo said...

100 Santas could clean up the 'hood on Sunday.

Or just forget this bar crawl (yes, it IS a bar crawl) and go help clean up SI and the Rockaways as the wonderful Times Up crew will be doing that day.

Anonymous said...

Agree with BT. Pubcrawls, fine do your thing. But Saint Nicklaus is a symbol of gift-giving and if you are going to dress the part, there should be some acknowledgement of the cultural tradition. The way this is done is all so pointlessly flippant and hollow and unsatisfying. I don't really believe in Christmas but you don't see me going around making a mockery of it for no good reason. Anyways these Santa partyers are not really having a genuine good time, they are grasping for meaning and connection. The people who really know how to enjoy life and friends and drinking...wouldn't ever think to participate in something like this.

Marty Wombacher said...

You're all invited to Peoria for the weekend, Mike's Tavern is Santa free and there's a Little Nut Hut inside!

Ken from Ken's Kitchen said...

Ugh, Shawn G. Chittle. Just ugh.

I was blissfully unaware of Double Down until I just went to their website and then in a kind of haze of disbelief to Yelp where it mostly gets 4-5 stars out of 5 from young Yelpers. Which I guess makes a kind of sense. After all, a Las Vegas chain "dive" bar with a "punk" theme that comes with a house shot called "ass juice" that tastes like cough syrup, dated porn on tv, and a warning to clean up after yourself if you drink until you puke probably seems pretty real to Santa Conners' recently migrated to NYU from prosperous Anytown, USA looking for an authentic NYC/EV experience.

I especially liked the Yelp comment from the guy from I forget where who HAD to go to the NYC version of Double Down to see how it compared to the original in Las Vegas. There's definitely a Royal Caribbean cruise in his future.

Anonymous said...

let me ask you people: do you also hate guys who dress up as santa for christmas in general? or just ones who're younger than you and spend money in establishments trying to pay rent in your neighborhood.

Anonymous said...

Eater's post is the best...now who's going to volunteer to print and pass these out?

http://sf.eater.com/archives/2012/12/12/combat_santacon_with_eaters_no_drunk_santas_signs.php

AC said...

To 2:05

Age has nothing to do with it. Many of the Santas that I see are old like me — 40s and 50s. My boss did this a few years ago. He drinks like 3x a year. So there's the Amateur Hour part of SantaCon. People do this who don't normally drink. They end up throwing up on my front stoop.

Also, I'd argue that they are pouring much money into the local economy. They may help out a few douchey bars. They tend to show up wasted and order waters anyway.

Now, please defend the pub crawls.

Goggla said...

The comments on Eater are hilarious.

And, Grieve, I just poured through your Santacon archive all in one shot. Wow.

EV Grieve said...

@ Goggla

Is that a Wow good... or Wow woo?

Goggla said...

@Grieve - I'd forgotten all the great memories.

Like this one: http://evgrieve.com/2010/12/here-comes-santa-claus.html

Anonymous said...

2:28 -- if you think 40s is old you need to get out of the east village, stop worrying about santa already and see the real world.

Barney said...

The neighborhoods effected by Sandy still need help!!! This is an insulting waste of manpower and time, especially at this time of year!!!

Anonymous said...

Three of Cups is on the route? I'm so confused. It's a restaurant. It holds about six people at the bar.

Anonymous said...

There are several good arguments against this stupid event, but that it is a "waste of manpower and time" because of the lasting effects of Sandy is not one of them. Hell, every single Sunday 85K people go to a crappy neighborhood in New Jersey for the right to spend hundreds of dollars to see a football team that can barely complete a forward pass (or a football team led by a 12 year old).

Morgan Tsvangirai said...

I'll be evacuating to Brooklyn in the early afternoon and will be returning late that night to survey the damage. God Bless

Anonymous said...

Any chance Con Ed could pull the plug on the EV this Saturday. We would still hear the woos but not have to look at them.

Anonymous said...

Better comments in the NY Eater

http://ny.eater.com/archives/2012/12/combat_santacon_with_eaters_no_drunk_santas_signs.php

blue glass said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
let me ask you people: do you also hate guys who dress up as santa for christmas in general? or just ones who're younger than you and spend money in establishments trying to pay rent in your neighborhood.
December 13, 2012 2:05 PM
i can't believe i am answering you!
santa con has nothing to do with christmas, or a santa suit. it is a poor excuse to behave like brainless jerks, drink in as many bars as possible, and wear a loud red suit so other assholes can recognize you immediately without any thought.
there is absolutely no benefit to the neighborhood. and if there is a benefit to any of the bars that participate in santacon, they are probably the bars that cause problems in the neighborhood to begin with.
no cool local bar would participate in this mindless group drunk.

Anonymous said...

Just to be clear, there are 28'000+ people on the Santacon Facebook invite listed as 'attending'. Let's presume only 80% of those make it to the east village. It will not be physically possible to fit 1000 people in each of the 22 red-tagged bars. They will be everywhere, in every possible establishment and drinking in the streets with open containers. I think the NYPD could make a mint giving out tickets for open container violations, public urination, drunk and disorderly conduct etc..

I used to do Santacon back in the day, pre-twitter and pre-Facebook. At that time it was a couple hundred people who gave out gifts and candy to passersby. Creativity in costuming and performance art was emphasized. It was a lot of the same people who go to Burning Man. While they would pop into bars along the way, it was more about merriment and spectacle than drinking your face off. In fact, since there was no way to intercept the group enroute, you had to start a the beginning and take it easy in order to get through the day. There was a lot more moving around to different parts of the city, because the group was small enough to fit on the subway.

This began to change and the customer segment became primarily Snooki-wannabes in store-bought costumes trying to get as drunk as possible as fast as possible. Last year apparently some people were already puking at 10am.

I know the organizers don't want it to be a 'bar crawl' per say (as compared to those who are running for-profit bar crawls), and tell people to tip well and pace themselves etc.. however the tens of thousands of woos and bros attending will make it into a shitshow regardless. Some people will bring bring canned goods to donate, but it won't be a significant proportion. While it is better than nothing, I don't know that it's worth the rivers of piss, puke and spilled beer that are forthcoming.

I think the best idea is to hunker down somewhere. Those establishments planning to try to be Santa-free may want to arrange for extra security.

Last year I left the country. Woo.

Victoria said...

Why does the image show the woman pooped out some windex? Am I supposed to understand this?

Anonymous said...

There was a time when people would clean out an empty pine sol bottle and put in whiskey instead and then use that as an open container.I think that is now being represented by windex.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, the Windex bottle is for Windex drink. http://www.drinknation.com/drink/windex

The Santadouches won't be spending money in the neighborhood bars establishments. Delusional, indeed.

Victoria said...

Oh. So people drank liquor out of pine sol bottles around Christmas time?

I also see little christmas lights and a green object? It looks naughty.

Anonymous said...

There are 60 venues donating 10% of their profit to Toys for Tots. Santacon will probably collect about 8000lbs of canned food to help sandy-affected areas restock the food banks.
It's not perfect. It's evolving, though.

La Muzz said...

It may have started as something creative, but in the past few years it's really deteriorated into a big mess. Yes, imagine if all of those drunken santi/elf screamers would, instead, turn their efforts to osr or any of the other organizations that are mucking out houses, cooking meals, doing admin, computer, grantwriting work for the thousands of people affected. And then then could have a drink or two afterwards! Yay! Or support the few bars that have reopened in far downtown?! They could use some customers, too. But no one needs the screaming, insane, drunken, time wasting, mind numbing excess that was on display in the EV in 2011. Ever. (Also, Santas, your livers will thank you in about twenty years.)

pinhead said...

@3:06 AM:

Stop, you're being silly. I'm sure you can think of plenty of effective ways to collect and distribute food and toys that don't involve excessive alcohol consumption.

If you want to put on a Santa suit and drink all day, have fun.

But stop pretending this event is about good works. No one is convinced.

Lulu Levity said...

Some of the comments here sound like they're from a Midwestern Church group. Pontificating on what "Santa" should represent? Tsk tsk, those naughty Santacon kids. What's worse than this once a year event is the weekly assault on the EV in the crappy hookah bars etc. Turn your disapproval on that instead. Or donate to charity yourself instead. Or go clean up the Rockaways yourself. It's funny and irreverent like Haoui Montag, abd John Sex used to be. It's silly, Grinches. It only happens one damn time a year. Lighten up people.

Former Santacon Enthusiast said...

It used to be silly fun, unfortunately as the customer segment has changed it's become something different. This is why I no longer participate. It started as a case of a few bad apples, but the bad apple to silly santa ratio got increasingly worse each year. I wish it was still silly fun.

To their credit, the organizers are trying hard to remind people to behave themselves as well as adjust the structure to try and mitigate the negative impacts. While I appreciate their efforts to remind people that Santacon is not an excuse to be an @sshole / grope people / start fights / drink to the point of vomiting / urinate on the streets the reality is that with a group of this size (with a large proportion of woos and bros) there will be bad behavior. Unfortunately the repeated gentle reminders cannot counteract 20+ years of being raised as woobros.

It's a shame, because the innocous silly santas have been diluted by the bad apples over the years. If there was some way to separate the silly santas from the sociopathic santas it would be a different story.

Back in 2009, there were multiple start points, all outside Manhattan. The sociopath santas decided on FB that "they wouldn't go to Queens etc." and made a plan to go to Stout for the day since it was near Penn Station (for the convenience of LIRR, NJ Transit, PATH patrons). The typical silly santa segment did the planned startpoints and had a magical time. The sociopath santas drank in a douchey bar all day and were contained. It was the perfect customer segmentation.

In 2010 I helped organize one of the start points and was in charge of collecting food donations as people came in the door. Approximately 1 person in 9 actually brought a donation.

This year, if there are 28,000+ people participating, the request is for 2cans per person. So if we assume that a can of food weighs approximately 1 lb that works out to a potential haul of 56,000 lbs of canned goods. If they are expecting ~8,000 lbs of canned goods that means only 15% of participants are donating food. From my experience there is a strong correlation between those that bring food donations and being a good silly santa that doesn't cause trouble. Unfortunately 85% of the santas do not fall into this category.

While it's only one day a year, it's become a flashpoint because it reflects a wider trend. The weekly woo invasion is the same customer segment that wants to party hardy without respect for others or the neighborhood they are visiting. Santacon has become a concentrated dose of this dynamic further heightened by the annonymity of being in an enormous group of people who are all dressed the same. The mob mentality takes over and people do not feel any personal responsibility. It's not just Santacon it's Mardi Gras, St. Patrick's Day, Cinco de Drinko etc..

It's sad really, it used to be a force for good. I'm hoping this year the adjustments they've made will result in a better experience for everyone with maximum benefits for the neighborhood and food banks and minimum negative externalities.

Maybe this year it will turn a corner?

Realistically I don't think that will happen, but I'll be hoping for the best.

Anonymous said...

Evolving, more like devolving. -- see anon. 8:35 pm comment.

And just because it happens once a year does not mean it should be tolerated. It's on a Saturday, 10 days before Christmas. People got holiday things to do in addition to the weekly things to do. And don't tell me that those can be done on other days when the Santadouches are in town. Why should we have our schedule revolve around this shitshow? They contribute nothing, as much as the defenders of this horror show would like to believe and justify it by saying the participants contribute by bringing in 2 cans of canned goods -- wow, or woo!

Anonymous said...

I have been, Lulu and will continue to donate and volunteer.
I delivered fresh food to my 90-year-old neighbor yesterday, have volunteered for Sandy relief and have two 80-plus-year-old relatives to care for as well.

It's about what could be accomplished if this energy went to something beyond the total disruption of thousands of people's lives.

The Santa event has become something that most of your neighbors dread. It is way beyond irreverant. It's overblown and ridiculous.

Have a great time getting drunk, but please throw up on your own doorstep. Thanks, the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

I have never done SantaCon, but I have always wanted to. Seems like an extremely fun event. I never knew about the controversy until now, but then again, I have never lived in Manhattan (NYC native though).

I am not surprised that something that started with good intentions has devolved into something useless. Like my mother used to say "this is why we can't have nice things". The same goes for every mass event: Burning Man, No Pants Ride, etc... Social media and the me-me-me generation has turned people into mindless followers.

This new mentality is inevitable in all aspects of life. Get used to it.

nygrump said...

hey 11:36 - don't tell me to get used to fucking douchebaggery. I know how to end all of this, get start an Occupy Santa, NYPD will show up in minutes. Start twitting that the santas will organize a march to oh say gracie mansion starting at some 2nd Ave bars at 6 pm ...

glamma said...

"I think the NYPD could make a mint giving out tickets for open container violations, public urination, drunk and disorderly conduct etc.."
Yet the cops are absolutely nowhere to be found, what a disgrace and how blatantly disgraceful, thanks again bloomberg and kelly for never missing an opportunity to sell out NYC. on the bright side, the people who participate in this kind of crap are so borderline retarded/braindead that maybe they will forget to swap out the lysol for gin or whatever and we'll get a nice little darwinian cleanup.

Crazy Eddie said...

Last year, the Bro Woo Frat DB apartment above me began their screaming around 10 AM. The role model for these Santa a-holes is Dan Aykroyd, not Edmund Gwenn . Back in the day, we only had to deal with this daytime kind of shit once a year on St Patrick’s day and the damage was basically limited to mid-town. All pub crawls, and that’s what this is, the so called charity angle is BS, are amateur hours, serous drinkers avoid them like the plague. Funny how the NYPD was busting people all over the place during OWS but this crowd is left alone.

Anonymous said...

If the defenders of this inane event is that they are being beneficent, then they should cancel this tomorrow in light of the Newtown tragedy. Have some compassion for crying out loud. Then again these douchebags have neither compassion nor dignity to begin with and they will never have one.

Lulu Levity said...

There are non-drinking Santa-conners! I was one last year and left the event midday to go to work. My bf and I will be giving out little toys to kids today and not getting drunk. tsk tsk?

Former Santacon Enthusiast said...

Lulu, then you're in the 15% minority. Sorry to say, but the experience of you and your bf is not statistically significant. While there are still some people with that mindset (including the organizers) they are fewer and fewer as the years go on. In 2010, people were literally running into traffic to get to the first bar. A few were nearly hit by cars.

It's not you we are worried about, it's the bad apples.

Hopefully the 'zone defense' will spread the impact across a wider area. An event with 500 or 1000 people has a very different dynamic than one with 30,000.

Last count on FB was 30,223 attendees. Even if only 1% of those are bad apples, they can cause a lot of problems.

Fingers crossed for the best, but won't be surprised if bad things happen.

Anonymous said...

@Lulu Levity

Kudos for capturing what was apparently the original spirit of SantaCon by giving toys to kids. The event has since gone way off the rails and you seem to be in the minority. Particpants today have to be reminded not to fuck with kids.

Anonymous said...

You ovviously have never been downstairs. A great bar.

Anonymous said...

What?