Friday, July 23, 2010

7:45 a.m., First Avenue, July 23

Meanwhile, the commenting continues on [Updated] Looking at the First Avenue's new bike lane and "floating lane."


Anonymous said...

Well where else do you want the truck to go, the middle of the road?

Lisa said...

Green goes to green. Makes perfect sense to me!

Reality check - since the dawn of automotive traffic vehicles have parked curbside. It's gonna take more than a week, a colored stripe and a surrealistic "floating lane" to change such ingrained behaviour.

Chris said...

No, anon, four feet over in the striped area, to leave just enough room for a bike to pass.

This isn't rocket science.

elkue said...

@ 9:12 am moron : where they're supposed to park.

blue glass said...

the reduced parking along with the terrible traffic decisions of bloomberg all point to his wanting to return to congestion parking.
money money money
why would a person put a pedestrian park right next to a real park? (madison square).
or in the center of traffic? (34th street)
it makes sense on far west 14th street. not too much traffic. lots of people.
why does every decision have to be based on the mighty doller in the guise of "protect the children"?

Laura Goggin Photography said...

So, where is the truck supposed to park when the floating parking area is filled? The only times these parking spaces are open is during the time when it's illegal to park there due to street-sweeping rules.

Someone also asked in another comment thread what the plan is for snow plows in winter. Will the plow squeeze down the bike lane or is that where all the snow piles will be, forcing bikes back into traffic?

I'm not trying to start any arguments - I am really just curious how this will all work. Since I was not involved in the planning of these new lanes, I just wonder what the long-term vision is of those who made these decisions.

elkue said...

"why would a person put a pedestrian park right next to a real park? (madison square)."

Because people will use it? Because it was dominated by cars before? Because it's nice to give tourists a place to sit, take photos, take a break between spending money in our city? Because it makes our city a better place?

blue glass said...

the seating area next to madison square park is a sitting area in the center of heavy traffic.
while right next to it is a park that has plenty of seats.
the only overcrowding in madison square park is the line of fools waiting for an awful overpriced hamburger at shake shack.
the plantings and cleaner air of the park would better benefit our tourists.
there are plenty of places a tourist can sit besides in the middle of traffic. take a look at all the vest-pocket parks and public areas to sit in that are not in the center of traffic.

Lisa said...

RatherBeBiking, I think the point blueglass was trying to make was that it's a bit odd to put a pedestrian park right next to a major greensward. Your comment, that people would "use's nice to give tourists a place to sit, take photos, take a break" - well, they can do that in a park park. But there are plenty of city areas that DON'T have a park, where there IS no place to sit, take photos, take a break, that would benefit more from a pedestrian park. I believe Blueglass thinks (and I tend to agree with her) that putting a pedestrian park next to a park park is a bit redundant.

dmbream said...


Traffic is pretty light here early in the morning.

Do you remember if the parking spaces just out of frame of that shot were occupied?

That might answer the "where do you want them to go?" question...

blue glass said...

they do ride in the street. bike lane or not.
and in the wrong direction.
and in your face with hostility.
bikes do whatever they want whenever they want it with attitude.
just because a bike has no exhaust and is physical does not make you a saint.
time to give tickets to bikers too.

and yes lisa, thanks. thats part of my point. most of the places that tourists go have a lot of seating but there are those areas that don't and could benefit. herald square also has a mini park. i forgot about that. makes no sense to plop people in the middle of heavy traffic and cause more traffic unless you want cars to suffer. but it's usuallly the pedestrian that pays in the end.
sometimes with their limbs or life.

elkue said...

blueglass / lisa -

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be upset up about losing some of the pedestrian malls, just wanted to offer give examples of how they're beneficial. It is odd for sure, especially compared to how things used to be there.

bluegrass, as far as the rogue cyclists go, I hate them just as much as you do. When someone rides to close to me on the sidewalk I walk in front of them, and when people ride the wrong way in bike lanes I don't give them an inch of space.

goggla -

I think there is a simple and complex answer to the question of where is the truck supposed to park when the floating parking area is filled.

Simple answer is that these trucks are driven by professional delivery drivers who need to adapt and park where they will not present a danger to others. If a professional delivery driver can't adapt to changing streets, how did they get the job?

The DOT could probably better answer the question, and I think they are trying to do so by promoting off hour deliveries and offering more commercial loading zones where they can. Go check out 1st / 2nd Avenue now. Some trucks will park in the floating zones, the buffer zones, the bus lanes, traffic lanes, bike lanes. They will pretty much park as close to the businesses as they can without getting towed.

Snow plows -

To answer the snow plow question, from what I've seen, 8th and 9th avenue were actually pretty usable right after big snow storms, for whatever reason. Grand Street was impassable for a while, and I know they don't send the plows through the separated lanes.

Long term vision -

From people I know who work for the DOT and mayors office, the idea here is to cut down on the number of unnecessary trips in cars while making things better for cyclists and pedestrians. This is painfully obvious if you drive downtown.

It's hard to have a real discussion about this kind of stuff because so many people are full of rage about it (the anonymous faggot organic guy for example).

That reminds me, I need to go to the faggot-organic cul de sac grocery to get some faggot vegetables.

Anonymous said...

I fully support the delivery guys pulling right up to the curb to make their deliveries. Why should they have to haul their heavy deliveries even further to accommodate cyclists?

elkue said...

Yeah! It's like, 10 extra feet to walk. You think that's easy for them?

God forbid a delivery professional should have to be concerned with the safety of others.

Faggot ass bikkkers.

elkue said...

That's awesome! I'll remember that the next time I'm carrying something heavy, I can pretty much not give a FUCK about anybody else.

But I do know why they park as close as they can. I've spoken to dozens upon dozens of drivers in the past 4 years. 50 percent of the time, the answer is something along the lines of "I want to get my job over with faster" / "I want to get home quicker".

Anonymous said...

Ever see a beer truck unload kegs for a bar onto the sidewalk ? They drop them off the truck onto a rubber mattress where they then bounce onto the sidewalk. Can't wait until they bounce those babys into the bike lanes !

Trucks need to park near the curb because the shit they carry is fucking heavy.

Anonymous said...

BTW, for those of you bikers who haven't figured this out yet, the trucks will park at the curb, and eat the ticket, just like they do now. Haven't you seen ANY truck try to make a delivery ? They double park (because the curbs are always full) to unload, and within 60 seconds a meter maid punches out a ticket. This (BTW) is nothing more than another tax on the citizens of NYC because all the suppliers simply raise their prices to cover the costs of delivery, including tickets. Every time you step into a grocery store, you're paying a higher price because our mayor is such a total dick.

elkue said...

I'm very familiar with the routine.

Not sure how you got to them bouncing the kegs in the bike lanes since judging by what you're saying, they're going to end up curbside anyway.

Eventually distributors concerned enough with public image will change delivery practices, some have already simply because so much of their marketing is focused on being 'green' and promoting bike commuting.

It's important to understand the what "need" means. Need is when you actually have to do something, like post anonymously because what you're saying is fucking stupid. Need is not the situation for these drivers. They want to make thing easier for themselves. Unfortunately others suffer for it.

elkue said...

(also, don't think you'r in a position to help others figure shit out - read your comment again - are they parking at the curb or not, moron?)

3FingersBrown said...

Hey Rather be biking do you make your living driving deliveries? If not STFU. Some people eek out a living busting their asses so you dickwads can eat over-priced bullshit. Have some respect for the working man and stop being such a drama queen. Where the fuck are you going in such a rush on your bike that you can't just slow down and mind a man trying to make a living?

I rode my bike all over the city for years without a problem. Same with a lot of others. All of a sudden a bunch of nanny-state pussies from cul-de-sac-istan come here and they've got to raise holy hell for the real NYers who never had a problem.

35 years here and I could never imagine how fucking effete this city's become. Funny people used to flee the city to get away from all the "bad brown folks." I can't wait until I can buy a house far far away from all the lilly white yunnies that have turned this place into a nanny-city/state.

elkue said...

After reading your whining about how the city has changed (cities do that sometimes) :

35 years here and you're moving out because of some transportation system changes? Big loss.

Enjoy your new home.

Anonymous said...

@RatherBeBiking: Not sure if you are being intentionally obtuse or simply lack any grasp of reality. You made the statement: Simple answer is that these trucks are driven by professional delivery drivers who need to adapt and park where they will not present a danger to others. What do you mean by "Adapt"? In the recent past it was somewhat difficult to find a legal spot on lower 1st or 2nd Avenues. This at a time when there were between 10-12 parking spots on an average block. With the new street layout the average block holds 4 parking spots. How, exactly, does one "adapt" to a 2/3 reduction in spots when they were already a precious commodity? Further, the new layout means that double parking cuts what was once a four lane avenue to two lanes, causing greater congestion and pollution. As far as off-hour deliveries, it is untenable for many small business owners to pay extra employees to be around when they are normally closed just to accept deliveries. Please explain exactly what you mean by "adapting", I'm eager to hear your solution.

elkue said...

Neither. I've explained a difficult situation as best I can for you, and luckily, it's not my job to offer the perfect solution. This is lower Manhattan, and there might not be one.

You act as if delivery professionals on 1st and 2nd avenue were primarily parked legally curbside before the new bike lanes arrived. Is that really your understanding of how things used to be? Was the sky bluer in your dreams? Were you rich and famous?

Sorry, but they were usually parked in the bike lane on 2nd avenue or in the left-most lane of traffic.

Deliveries are going to be made one way or another, and from my observation most drivers on second 1st and second avenue have managed to either park in the floating traffic lane or in a lane of traffic.

So, instead of parking in a bike lane or in a lane of traffic farthest to the left, many drivers will just pull up in the left most lane of traffic.

Also, with buffered bike lanes below 14th street, commercial vehicles are supposed to park outside the bike lane/buffer into traffic anyway, and are supposed to avoid getting a ticket because of this. Many companies employ this practice when possible now (Chrystie Street, East Broadway, etc).

Anonymous said...

You know, Rather Be Biking, it is entirely possible to respond to someone without acting like an asshole.

At least before the bike lanes delivery trucks had a shot at parking legally. Now, there is virtually none. You advocate having delivery trucks double park in a lane of traffic. As previously stated, this cuts active traffic lanes down to two, increasing congestion and pollution.

Anyway, you seem more interested in tossing out insults than working through this. What I am taking away from this is that you are rather selfish and nasty, which is exactly the sort of thing people tend to complain about with bike riders. Maybe your responses make you feel better somehow, but they sure don't help paint you or your interests in a very good light. Whatever issues you have there are surely better ways to deal with them.

elkue said...

Sorry, but weren't you the one calling people "faggot ass bikers"?

If you don't want to get your feelings hurt, don't act like such a homophobic prick.

elkue said...

Also, I'm not advocating parking that way. I don't know how you read that into my comment.

Anonymous said...

No, I said nothing of the sort. Just because someone posts under anonymous it does not mean they are all the same person.

As far as your claim that you did not suggest trucks park that way, you should contact the moderator of this blog as someone posted under your name and said Also, with buffered bike lanes below 14th street, commercial vehicles are supposed to park outside the bike lane/buffer into traffic anyway

elkue said...

Can you provide any evidence that wasn't you? No? Dick!

Anyway :

Just because I share a fact that you may or may not have been aware of, I am not promoting the idea. If I had, my comment might have ended with something like "and this is why delivery driver should park in this manner".

Quoting myself :

"Also, with buffered bike lanes below 14th street, commercial vehicles are supposed to park outside the bike lane/buffer into traffic anyway, and are supposed to avoid getting a ticket because of this. Many companies employ this practice when possible now (Chrystie Street, East Broadway, etc)."

Hmm, nope, no opinons in there. Just trying to "work through this" as you had suggested I do.

Anonymous said...

I find it amazing that someone who posts in the open as Liam does, would be so foolish as to toss around epithets like he does.

Liam... grow up. I know that being 19 makes you think that you know it all, but in fact, you do not.

New York City has been here well before you were born, and will be here well after Bloomberg/Kahn have gone as well. When the lawsuits start to mount and businesses close up in droves, there will again be change. Hang out and enjoy it while you can dude.

blue glass said...

this is getting so very silly and stupid. and people are waisting time cursing each other out.
the new traffic lanes are not a benefit to anyone except the mayor and they are more dangerous for everybody. bikers too.
less parking means more tickets.
bike lanes mean their own space for bikers that take advantage of them and still disregard traffic rules.
let's end this unless somebody has something new to say or a real answer

take a look at what the ups delivery guy sometimes has piled up as he walks from the corner.
or the beverage deliveries. that crap is very heavy.

elkue said...

Sorry, but it was you who called people "faggots". Are you confusing me... with yourself?

If you really think that a couple of bike lanes are going to be the cause of businesses closing up in droves you're a complete fool.

I'm not afraid to attach my name to what I say because I'm not a coward or a homophobic, reactionary individual like yourself, anon.

elkue said...


I grow tired of the name calling also. Homophobic slurs suck and I didn't mean to perpetuate them.

But I don't understand why you complain about how tiresome this is getting, and then post a paragraph of the same generalizations about cyclists that are a dime a dozen in these comments, making the same complaints you did yesterday in your "money money money" post.

You're entitled to your opinion but just making your point again with the same generalization is the epitome of tiresome. Almost as tiresome as this comment is.

The point is our streetscapes have changed, and I guess this comment forum is just another board for those who have a problem with it to cope with it.

I think I've offered a series of facts closer to a real "solution" than any of you who have come on here simply to complain about bikers have.