Thursday, November 21, 2013

Report: Some Midtown bars will now ban drunken SantaCon revelers


[Image via Eater]

As DNAinfo reports today, the NYPD's Midtown North Precinct sent letters to about 30 bars in Midtown and Hell's Kitchen urging them not to welcome SantaConners.

Per the letter:

The number of participants has grown large enough to completely overwhelm the sidewalks and public spaces...Having thousands of intoxicated partygoers roam the streets urinating, littering, vomiting and vandalizing will not be tolerated in our neighborhood...It is my recommendation that you do not sponsor this event in any way.

SantaCon is scheduled for Dec. 14 this year. For those of you concerned by all this, we've heard that residents should call 311 in advance of Dec. 14 to either request extra NYPD patrols for the day... or at least express concern.

Back on Oct. 17, State Sen. Brad Hoylman sent a letter to organizers, stating in part:

I strongly urge you to work with the New York City Police Department in order to come up with a strong and effective plan to combat public intoxication and to ensure all participants are respectful of the neighborhoods they visit, as well as handling the overwhelming crowds associated with an event this size. In addition, I urge you make this plan available to the affected local Community Boards well in advance of your event so that they have time to comment and help shape it.

H/T Eater

Previously on EV Grieve:
How was your SantaCon?

A few scenes from SantaCon 2012: Scourge of the city or good time had by all?

52 comments:

10:38 am said...

Just read that. And this is what to worry about:
"As far as coming to Hell's Kitchen this year, you don't have anything to worry about" the [spoke]person wrote back...
The location of this year's SantaCon, to be held Dec. 14, won't be announced until a few days before the event"

Meaning, they will be in the EV/LES, since Stetzer or CB3 hasn't heard any complaints*, meaning she welcomes* them. What was somewhat spread-out in NYC, particularly Manhattan, this massive shitshow will now be concentrated in the very small area of the EV and LES. So, better not cry and pout, and just get out of town, if or when you can on Dec. 14.

[*got kickbacks from the bar owners]

Anonymous said...

How about a "knockout Santacom"? For every santa knocked out, you get a dollar.

Legitimate Golf said...

I'm afraid this outpouring of anti-con sentiment is only going to make the whole thing bigger and drunker. Hate to be defeatist (this is now my default disclaimer whenever I talk about NYC in 2013) but on a day like that the most sensible thing to do is stay home, or leave town. Santacon and other bro cultural festivities are morally dishonorable and ought to be railed against, but most of us will end up taking the pragmatic route and who can really fault that. Makes me sad that people would have to wage such a sorry battle.

No, That's Too Simple, There's Gotta Be a Catch Somewhere said...

Gee whiz, Officers. If you would enforce the law prohibiting a bartender from serving a patron who is intoxicated then this whole problem of streets filled with drunk Santas would cease to exist.

Suggestion: police enter each bar along the way and verify that no intoxicated patrons are being served. Should they discover that a bartender serves a drunk patron another drink, issue a summons. The bartenders and their employers will soon stop creating drunk Santas.

Anonymous said...

Knockout Santa - win a prize!
I love it.

Giovanni said...

Remember when adults acted like adults? Why do adults now dominate all the holidays that used to be for children, getting dressed up in silly costumes and acting stupid? Is this some kind of weird repressed-libido fetish thing I'm missing out on, or is it all just an excuse to get loud and drunk in the streets?

Halloween has turned into such a major drunk and slut-fest, we should just call it Slutoween or Drunkoween.

Christmas used to be considered kind of a sacred thing, now it seems like everything is just an excuse to have Mardi Gras with people in outfits they bought at Ricky's falling down drunk in the streets.

Whats next, drunken dreidel parties for Hannukah? A crack-fest on Kwanzaa?

Maybe what Andy Warhol meat to say is, "In the future, everyone will be a drunken Santa Claus for 15 minutes."

Anonymous said...

I don't know where to start. There's already St. Patricks and New Years, two 'holidays' that in this country exist only to get shit-faced. then there's every frat party and thursday through Saturday night in anywhere NYU kids or 20-somethings congregate in this city.

I wish these people would stay in Darien or wherever. Go have SantaCon in New Haven, fer chrissakes.

Gojira said...

Stetzer is a stone liar - I sent her a long letter early last year complaining about how CB3 does nothing to stop drunken cons like this, quoted the CB6 resolution banning such cons in their cachement area, and asking that CB3 do the same. After two emails to her requesting SOME kind of reply, she sent me a brief, dismissive email basically saying her hands were tied and CB3 could do nothing about any of it. Would love to know what bar owners are slipping her cash in unmarked envelopes; she's the worst district manager in the entire CB system.

Crazy Eddie said...

I got out of town last year. I will probably do the same this year. You should have seen them at Penn Station coming in, already shit faced and Woo-Hooing. Santa Con makes the St. Patrick’s Day parade look like the Easter Parade. I remember a recent post at this blog saying that white privilege for Santa Con is not an issue since the police let the participants in the West Indian Day and the Puerto Rico Day parades get away with the same behavior. I have been around Central Park for the PR Day parade (never been to the WI Day Parade) and there is a heavy PD presence there while there is none in the EV for this shit stain. And when these parades (daylight events) are over, the crowd generally disperses and goes home. Not his crowd. This is a 18 hour event, from 10 AM to 4 AM. Alcohol IS the focus. And I’ll take Puerto Rico culture and West Indian culture any day over Bro culture.

BT said...

If someone really wanted to dampen the santacon thing... I'd suggest a phony "KnockOut Santa" request campaign. Paper the area with signs requesting help for a "knockout santa" event to be held that day.

It's a joke, of course, but if the press covers it in the correct manner it might dissuade some participants from showing up. If the Bisquick guys can get fake press about a fake story, then maybe the techniques can be used for good, not evil?

Susan Stetzer said...

Since the earlier stories in EV Grieve--I have received 2-3 complaints in last 2 years. Regarding the first person who sent long letter--I explained that I needed complaints about specific locations so that the police can go to these locations (as midtown police are now doing). A letter just complaining in general is better than nothing--but does not give anything to act on. There are also not complaints to police. Last year I went to the commanding officer personally at least 2 times to ask him to have the problem outside 13th Step cleared--he had no other complaints.

Anyone who knows me knows that I would never consider a "kickback." I will not even dignify that.
I would ask that people go to the cb 3 website and use the CB website form for "make a complaint."--fyi, this goes through City records and is filed permanently as proof of complaint.
If you first call 311 to make complaint about specific locations, this also goes on record officially. If you then send the complaint number on "make a complaint form"-we can follow up with police. The 311 complaint requires accountability. So, let's complain productively. I thank EV Grieve for the 2-3 I have received, but I am sure there are many more bothered. Be specific as to which bars are causing a problem so this can be acted on.

Gojira said...

I WAS specific regarding the bars that promote and welcome this free-for-all in the CB3 district. I also included the name of the dozen-plus cons that are perpetrated upon the neighborhood each and every year. Don't try to pretend you care about this, Ms. Stetzer, if you did you would be be working with the 9th Precinct in an effort to get them to emulate the actions of Midtown North.

Cranky in the EV said...

They said there were no complaints last year? Call 311 this year to complain...flood them with calls!!!

Cosmo said...

This year, instead of leaving town or hiding, residents should hit the streets, go about your daily business, and document it all with photos or video. Collect hard evidence of what goes on so it can be proven.

Scooby said...

CrazyEddie - I lived on Eastern Parkway right on the West Indian Day Parade - GREAT FUN and great food - with people having a good time. The last few years has shown a MASSIVE police presence (along with bullshit arrests of Jumaane Williams - councilman for the area - yes a black man (and great guy)) which I'm sure has kept things pretty calm (there are always crimes at this stuff - let's be honest). Now - if the same could/would be applied to this Idiotfest known as Santacon. A real simple solution would be a favorite revenue raising device - TICKETS. Issue public intoxication and urinating in public tickets - money for the city and a pain in the ass for the drunken shitbags in the streets. I'm sure they'll be some criminal charges like disorderly conduct and assault from these out-of-control drunks as well. All the better to shut this shit down. But the whole thing relies on ONE crucial occurance - a police presence. If Santacon had protest signs they'd be SWARMED by massive amounts of police (along with helicopters, scooter patrol and SWAT). Why is this shit allowed is a simple question? I know people picked up for urinating in public and public intoxication. Oh yeah - they're not white... Hmmmm.
Knock-A-Santa-OUT - I like it! But then WE are the bad guys for standing up to stupidity - go figure

Anonymous said...

Like McWater wasn't receiving any kickbacks.

If you see someone being disorderly, you don't need someone to make a complaint before it's real to you. If you see that the sky is blue, the sky is blue. You don't need someone to tell you that to make it official.
Would love to attend a CB3 meeting, but I'll probably be just banned for speaking out against CB3.

And those who compares this to St. Paddy's, PR, WI, Day, well those events have organizers and committee and notifies the NYPD and the community months ahead on when and where they will be. And if there are complaints, you can reach out to them and they will resolve or try to resolve the complaint. Unlike this where the organizer is anonymous and will let the participants know only a day or two before where they will swarm the city and cause havoc.

Big Brother said...

"I needed complaints about specific locations so that the police can go to these locations"

Are you KIDDING? This yearly display of mass public drunkenness is so bad people in YOUR COMMUNITY leave the city! You and the NYPD could do something about it. TIP: Look for the huge masses of people dressed as Santa terrorizing the city. My god, what a BS answer Susan!

Anonymous said...

I like the idea of taking matters in our own hands and using some guerilla tactics against these fratties. A few broken teeth and fingers might send a strong message.

Seems fair after all the violence I've seen from these loathsome drunks in recents years.

A little while ago I said...

Susan,

Why does it take a surge of protesting/complaining letters to have the local police precincts send some officers to the Santacon sites to keep an eye on things?

Surely you and your colleagues and the police are already aware of how out of control the drunken crowds can and will be during these events.

I would want your Board and the police to be proactive and either shut these activities down (or to at least nip them in the bud and not process their permits; if any) or at the very least, assign a small contingent of peace officers to ensure the public is not inconvenienced by them.

Signed,
Concerned Lower East Side resident

Bartenders Can Be Arrested For Selling Alcoholic Beverages to Intoxicated Persons .. said...

The NYS law regarding service to an intoxicated person can be found here:

http://www.sla.ny.gov/handbook-for-retail-licenses

Excerpts ...

Be sure your employees understand the provisions of the Dram Shop Act (General Obligations Law, Section 11-101) which holds bartenders and/or clerks responsible for third person injury or death caused by a visibly intoxicated person served by the bartender or clerk.

Be sure your bartenders, wait staff and clerks understand that they can be arrested for selling alcoholic beverages to minors and/or intoxicated persons.

Anonymous said...

Every Friday and Saturday night is now SantaCon in the East Village. I have called the local precinct and 311 about the drunks congregating in front of the bar across from my building and nothing happens. The bar manager is charming and has a good rapport with the cops so they do shit. It is unbelievable. If SantaCon hits the EV again, which it will, the cops should be on patrol arresting people for being drunk in public. There has to be a campaign to stop this crap.

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Big Brother. It is absolutely preposterous that Susan Stetzer needs people to personally point out the problematic Santacon bars. Open your own eyes, lady, no one here works for you.

Unknown said...

"Mama said knock Santa out."

Anonymous said...

There was a time pre-Guiliani when St Pats day was as bad of today's Santa Con. Lines would form outside of McSorelys at 9am, the parade brought in the flocks from the outer boroughs and NJ, and you literally had to dodge flying beer bottles. It was not as loud since yelling "woo" was not the thing back then. With a little help from mother nature we might get lucky and have some rain or better yet a snow storm to give these santas a little north pole scenery to slip around in. I hope nobody takes to confronting these fools it is not worth it no matter how annoying and disgusting the whole thing is. Please complain to the proper authorities as mentioned in early postings.

nygrump said...

I continue to believe we are all just numbers on a City gov spreadsheet calculating our predicted tax revenue from alchohol use.

Crazy Eddie said...

“when St Pats day was as bad of today's Santa Con.” Sorry, I was waiting for this type of “moral equivalence” comment for St. Patrick’s Day. I call bogus on it, being a native here and Irish as well who bought my first 6 pack of 16 oz. Buds at a bodega on 12th and B when I was 15 for that day of underage drinking celebration. As I have posted before, for Saint Patrick’s, the collateral damage was around 95% mid-town except maybe for McSorley’s and a couple of neighborhood Irish bars like the infamous Glocca Morra Pub on Third Ave between 23rd and 24th street. There was ALWAYS a major fight in there on St. Patrick’s. The parade crowd then (not now)was also mostly working class natives and B&Ts, cops, and firemen, not the privileged NYU, upper middle class suburbanites , and out of state Bros now living here that show up for Santacon. And at 15, I could outdrink any of these “dudes”, and if I went too far, I always made it home to throw up, always the day after, never on the street, to the utter consternation of my parents. My father, though, I believe, was secretly pleased. “At least he’s not on drugs”. That came later.

And Scooby, thanks for the head's up re the WID parade, will have to check it out.

Giovanni said...

The only other event in New York that can be compared to the mayhem of SantaCon is the old Critical Mass bike ride that happened monthly and sometimes had thousands of cyclists racing around in separate groups all around Manhattan.

There were hundreds of police assigned to the bigger rides, on bikes, in squad cars, on motorcycles, and in helicopters. They would corral smaller groups into side streets, put out the orange nets trapping them, and arrest people en masse, confiscating their bicycles and locking people up for the weekend. It got to be so wild that it resembled that scene in Planet of The Apes when the humans are being hunted down in the bushes.

Question: Why isn't there any similar response by the City to the annual mayhem of SantaCon?

Answer: Because SantaCon is good for business, it has no political agenda that rubs Bloomberg the wrong way like OWS and Critical Mass, and there are probably plenty of cops and firemen dressed in red uniforms participating. It's just like the motorcycle rampages which take place every weekend that, until the recent SUV beating, received no attention, except by the people they eegularly terrorize and disturb.

If SantaCon was a political movement, it would be shut down in a New York minute.

Selective Enforcement Produces Drunk Santas said...

To those calling for arrests for "Public Intoxication", it's my understanding that the law against that was repealed on December 31, 1975:

http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/crimnet/ccman/non_fp_codedlawmanual.xls

However there is a NYS law against a bartender serving alcohol to an intoxicated patron, and that law also requires that a bartender keep track of whether someone that they served subsequently conveyed the alcoholic beverage to an intoxicated individual.

http://www.sla.ny.gov/handbook-for-retail-licenses

Let's insist that the police enforce those laws, not just for SantaCon but year round.

Anonymous said...

Where are all the concrete slabs when you need them?

/levity.

Communist Board 3 said...

Stetzer probably leaves town herself and in Bermuda with Bloomberg, or on a glitzy European city or exotic island vacation paid for by the bar owners whenever SantaCon is around, that's why she neither hears the complaints nor sees the mayhem brought on by these overgrown brofratdouches and sorority sisters.

Anonymous said...

Pro-Citibike comment is just another strawman comment baiter, that when someone calls them out, they pout and become cross and extremely anxious, which gives them an irrational fear of annihilation and sends them into a primitive infantile rage.

Victim happened to be using a CitiBike when attacked, not because he was a Citibike user, billowing bale of bovine fodder.

Anonymous said...

Just for starters: THIRD AVENUE, starting at 14th and heading south. SECOND AVENUE, starting at 14th and heading south. FIRST AVENUE. AVENUE A. AVENUE B. AVENUE C.

Just draw a box from 14th to Canal, Broadway to the East River and you will have the beginning of the area in question.

DrGecko said...

@anon3:35, you emitted this:

"With a little help from mother nature we might get lucky and have some rain or better yet a snow storm .... Please complain to the proper authorities as mentioned in early postings."

Actually, I think a rainstorm would put more of a damper on the thing than a snow storm, but let me know who the proper authority is for ordering up either one, and I'm in. I'm pretty sure it's not Susan Stetzer.

Anonymous said...

Firstly, I live DIRECTLY above a bar (that's being run illegally as a night club) in the EV. I've done nothing but report them to 311 for a year which results in NOTHING.This makes me think the city does nothing at all about any sort of noise complaint. I've witnessed people in the EV during this Santa Con thing wasted and vomiting in the gutter at literally noon. How are you this drunk at noon? Who's serving them? How will complaining about Santa Con do one single thing when I've been complaining about something illegal for a year every week? Bloomberg ended OWS because of disturbance to the public but lets this $hit go on? Of course people are getting paid to turn their backs and let all the bars make money.

Uncle Waltie said...

I've said it a thousand times: you don't look cool puking your brains out on 2nd Avenue and 6th Street (by that bank/currency conversion place) in broad daylight. Saw a very attractive young woman (at least from behind) doing exactly that on my way home from...you guessed it...a local bar. That was around 3:30 PM. These kids need to be taught a lesson...and I can provide that lesson for an ultra-low fee. "How to pace yourself, get drunk and remain dignified." Presently I'm in negotiations with NYU for a fully tenured professorship on said subject. Soon you can look me up on the Internet.

Anonymous said...

...in my building, the Santas and elves start early at home. Seriously, 10 a.m. with the boozy (foodless) brunch and after a couple of rounds, off they go, only to return later for more "free drinks". Had a hallway run-in with a very loud Santa. Not looking forward to this even though I'm planning to stay home with all the bros in the building.

JAZ said...

@Anon 12:21 -

"I've witnessed people in the EV during this Santa Con thing wasted and vomiting in the gutter at literally noon. How are you this drunk at noon? Who's serving them?"

One of the problems with this whole nightmare is that lots of them stumble off the PATH already wasted, so by the time they arrive here they are just looking for a place to start wooing and puking.

DroBot said...

I feel like the average age of an EVGrieve commenter is like 65...

I for one am super STOKED to dress up as Santa. I'm gonna loiter outside Empire Biscuit. Scream at small children. Hopefully vomit on the back of some 20 year old and maybe get around to googling what a cooktop is.

Anonymous said...

just kidding about the knockout thing.

they could move event to a colder month. pray for rain.

bowboy said...

DroBot, then how old does that make the folks in midtown, 115? They're the ones banning Santas, not the EV. Please take you're act up there and have fun. I don't want some 65 year old to knock you out down here, but it would be funny to watch.

DroBot said...

I mean the worst part about the whole santacon thing is that all these drunk kids from Jersey are gonna be buying taquitos and cigarettes from the 7 Eleven on 11th and A. AMIRITE

If only the bodegas had dollar taquitos...

blue glass said...

DroBot - WTF! will you be bringing your laser beam with you?
"I for one am super STOKED to dress up as Santa. I'm gonna loiter outside Empire Biscuit. Scream at small children. Hopefully vomit on the back of some 20 year old and maybe get around to googling what a cooktop is."

i am so glad you shared your plans with us. I look forward to stepping over your puke-drenched passed-out body.

Anonymous said...

Huh. Can't tell if DroBot is for real or not, but he does raise an interesting question. Are the Biscuit Boys going to be able to handle the Santa Bros?

You asked for drunks, Biscuiteers -- well, you gon' get 'em. Good luck. Heh.

Anonymous said...

I don't get the equating of I-don't-like-hordes-of-puking-Frat-bots with not-young. I also assume from the context this means equating not-young with boring-stick-in-the-mud-who-doesn't-like-fun.

Which, of course, begs the next question: When did puking-frat-bots start equaling fun? No one sent me a memo on this.

Maybe it is the same memo that was telling us that when you go out, you show how much fun you're having by screaming woo-hoo...'cause I missed that notification, too.

There used to be enough bars in the nabe for the nabe. I spent plenty of time in them (and in bars in other neighborhoods, cities, and countries! Still do.). Sometimes I even ended up less-than-perfectly-sober. Sometimes I acted like an asshole. But, I recall generally (except for one epic fight with my now ex-husband -- and I wasn't even drunk at the time) NOT screaming and not acting entitled if I *did* disturb someone. I never told anyone to live "somewhere else".

I still do spend time in bars, but I have to time it so that I don't end up being there when the bros are out and about. It means I tend to do my drinking on Tuesdays. Or I throw a party at home.

A little while ago I said...

Oh my gracious, people. OF COURSE DroBot is kidding! He's going for that BiscuitGroupie angle but isn't quite makin' it...

THE NOTORIOUS L.I.B.E.R.A.T.I.O.N. said...

In my '30s as well, hardly old, and have no tolerance for SantaCon. It's not simply drinking, it's the shit that comes along with it: the throwing of the metal trash cans in the street, attacking taxis for not picking them up, urinating wherever, whenever, fighting with store clerks and knocking over shelves worth of merchandise when they're told there's no public bathroom all while screaming the neanderthal mantra, "hey, so what, it's only New York City!" - all things I have personally witnessed.

When people like Susan Stetzer and the NYPD going MIA on this day, it's an endorsement for this type of behavior. It speaks volumes.

FloBot said...

Listen up, you Puke-Bot-Frat-Nabe.

We don't like you or your Jolly-ol' Gift Giving kind (Especially when your gift is stinky Santa PUKE!).
We know you and your DiscoBiscuits will be wreaking havoc all over the EV and Midtown this Santacon, and all I can say is GOOD RIDDANCE that is not happening on MY block.

Back when I was in the MARINE TRAINING ACADEMY we used to whoop screwballs like you for breakfast. Which reminds me, if you have Progressive Insurance, you won't even need to worry about getting a great rate on your next breakfast.

Anonymous said...

This is a case where calling the authorities or begging Ms. Stetzer to please help us will accomplish NOTHING.

What we need to do is go to the source and find out who the organizer is and flood him (surely is not a female) with our frustration via email, phone calls, whatever it takes!

I do not support those who are threatening violence against the Santacon participants.

But Santa, You've Already Had Enough to Drink, Go Puke Up the Bar You Came Out of Instead of Puking on the Sidewalk said...

I don't understand why the complaints are largely directed against the consumers of SantaCon instead of at the bars and stores that sell alcoholic beverages to intoxicated people. Existing law already prohibits such sale, just as it prohibits sales to minors.

Instead of the "punch a drunk santa in the face" frenzy, how about organizing a two-pronged attack on the alcohol sellers, via NYPD and NYSLA? Let a handful or more of bars lose their licenses as a result and watch things change for the better.

I'm pretty sure NYSLA would move on this (they have, after all, even hired underage folks to test whether alcohol sellers will sell to children), but there needs to be public clamor for them to do that. And they need to be allocated enough funds to hire enough inspectors to do that.

Dave - everywhere said...


Last year we had tickets to see Paul Winter's annual Winter Solstice concert a St. John the Devine on the UWS. Unfortunately it was the same Saturday as Santacon so we had the opportunity to spend an hour plus on the LIRR comining into the city with people en costume who were already drunk at 11AM.

I'm a former EV resident and my brother in law still is and our plan was to come downtown after the concert, have dinner, go to HiFi and play pool. very bar was mobbed and the two places that we tried to have dinner in were shit-storms of people my kids age (mid-20's) not only drunk and obnoxious but totally out of control (a girl standing near my wife lost control of her bladder, wet her pants and started laughing/crying uncontrollably. Less on learned - staying away from the city this year on Santacon.

Anonymous said...

Good idea! There has to be a way to find out who the organizers are.

Anonymous said...

This looks like the NYC Santacon website:

http://nycsantacon.com/

I don't see where you can contact the organizers directly though. I guess THEY contact YOU via your social media subscription.

Can't we band together and put pressure on the 5th, 7th, and 9th precincts to put bars on notice? Can't we put pressure on local bars not to serve participants ? Argh!