Tuesday, November 12, 2013

Report: The making of Empire Biscuit; plus, people drop biscuits on the floor but eat them anyway



The New York Post features Empire Biscuit co-founders Jonathan Price and Yonadav Tsuna in the paper's @work section this week ... in a piece titled "Birth of an Empire (Biscuit)."

The piece offers some background on the two, who opened the storefront on Avenue A on Oct. 30:

For the fledgling team taking their first foray into restaurant ownership, a single-product restaurant made sense. Price — who cut his teeth at the famous Magnolia Grill in Durham, N.C. — and Tsuna, a Memphis, Tenn., native, both knew the magic of the Southern biscuit and how well it would resonate with New York City’s consumers.

And what else was needed to launch the business?

So the pair surrounded themselves with a team of advisers to make up for the skills they lacked, including design and real estate. To raise funds, Price and Tsuna created a crowd funded Kickstarter campaign page with a video of the enigmatic pair describing the concept.

“Making the video required us to think really hard about articulating our core values — creating high quality food and being part of this great neighborhood,” Tsuna notes.

And?

To build buzz, Price and Tsuna hosted tastings out of Price’s apartment.

Once they secured their storefront, “People around us would come in to chat. We would spend hours everyday chatting with people. We love Avenue A because it’s so neighborly,” says Tsuna, who recently moved into an apartment down the block from the shop.

The piece also touches upon EB's apparent popularity, noting the need for a "biscuit bouncer" to help manage the lines waiting for their product, which people apparently really like.

After dropping a tiny piece of biscuit, Max Hatfield-Biondo, 28, an engineer from Soho, took a moment to think before declaring, “I’m going to eat that off the floor.”

Eating off the floor is apparently a trend. As noted earlier in the aticle:

At the front wooden counter, a lanky 20-something in a baseball cap is apologizing to his less-than-pleased girlfriend for dropping her biscuit on the floor. She pouts, taking the slightly bruised biscuit from his hands — and eats it anyway.

Meanwhile, via the EB Instagram account, an update on their hours ...



72 comments:

Anonymous said...

Avenue A is neighborly?! Is there some other Avenue A I don't know about?

Anonymous said...

What's so annoying about this piece is all the exaggeration. I live nearby and the few times the shop has been open I have seen people inside, but there haven't been massive lines. I saw five people in line one day but that is only because the space is so small. Not many people can sit inside and not many people can wait in line inside. It wasn't designed to accommodate a lot of people. It was designed as a grab and go place. There is also no mention of the fact that this place has been closed more than it has been open because they didn't have enough staff and supplies on hand. So much for what they learned from their advisors. And the stuff about them wanting to be good neighbors is such bull. If they cared about the neighborhood, they wouldn't openly cater to the drunk crowd like they do in their tagline. Reading the posts on this site you see people are upset about this but these hipsters don't care. It's too bad the writer of this story didn't do any reporting. Why not come down to the neighborhood to observe the place and talk to the neighbors to get the truth? It would be a more interesting story if it was about their struggles to run this place and the mistakes they have made.

bluel glass said...

perhaps they have spent all their money on a great pr person and now they can't afford the supplies to make the damn biscuits.
perhaps they felt that spending hours every day chatting with people would somehow get the biscuits made.
and
what happened to their "team of advisers"?
they can't be serving a lot of biscuits if they mention the lucky few that are able to actually score one.
their satisfaction with "this is exactly what we wanted to do" tells me they've smoked a little too much weed and are high enough to feel that thinking they are doing something is the same as actually doing it.
is this the model for the future?
god save us all.

Marcos said...

Anyone else get an astroturf vibe from this place? The shortages seem suspiciously orchestrated to me. There's definitely a tight and well connected PR campaign that lines up nicely with the opening "challenges".

Anonymous said...

"Enigmatic"? Hardly.

Anonymous said...

I like the biscuits at Back Forty. Sometimes I will go in just to get a biscuit. They don't seem to mind. Is there anywhere else in the neighborhood that has good biscuits?

Anonymous said...

Yup, never seen a crowd here... They're just trying to build up fake hype. Next thing you know, they'll be hiring the homeless and crusties from TSP to form a line a'la cronut.

Anonymous said...

I have a perfect place for Empire Biscuit: Williamsburg. Please leave.

Anonymous said...

The line about having to hire a biscuit bouncer made me laugh. Sounds like something a publicist told them to say. I am not saying there won't be lines at this place once it opens 24 hours and is proudly serving the "drunk" crowd. But there are by no means out of control lineups. I saw five people in line one day on the sidewalk one day. If the place was bigger, they could have easily stood inside.

A little while ago I said...

In the freezing cold of January there won't be any lines waiting outside.

The "enigmatic pair" bit got me too. More like grandiose.

I like how they mention the Kickstarter campaign but don't mention they only got 11K of the 62K they aimed for and even Kickstarter's robot stamped the campaign as a failure.

And permagrin lives down the block now. Oh joy. So even if this place fails he'll be around for a bit.

So far they haven't proven themselves and this venture has been a comedy of errors but I fear they will succeed anyway.



Anonymous said...

Cooking up an unexpected hit? They can't keep the doors open because they only manage to pull off 5 biscuits at a time before closing for a panicked fine tuning. Their recent press is laughable and truly absurd.

BT said...

The newspapers have to fill space and the newspapers will get things wrong in almost every article. Give them a "good" story and they'll run with that even if they fabricate a few things.

Some little place is getting press coverage like this? I'll bet $100 that someone used to work at a PR agency OR some female at a PR agency is getting laid by one of these two. She's got a contact list or writers at the papers.

I'm very pro-entrepreneur. But I'm rooting against these guys.

I wonder if the guys at the (long running) Stage Restaurant/Diner know what their "core values" are? hahahaha

Anonymous said...

I admit I'm primed to dislike this place for the myriad reasons already stated here a million times, but I have noticed that the crowds outside this place, such as they are, seem very "actorly" to me. I've observed this several times now (I live across the block) ... there just seems to be a "hey personal friends, come and hang out at our shop every day and make us look mobbed."

Especially because I've seen people just standing outside very animatedly looking at menus. Not lined up. Not seeming to be behaving with any sense of purpose. Just standing there doing this weird performance of "What should we order?!"

Fashion By He said...

1) there are always lines on the weekend

2) why is anyone hating on this business? Isn't local business exactly what the EV wants, and what you fools are constantly looking for? You hate chains, this is the furthers thing from it...you should be welcoming these types of businesses to the areas

3) i have been there multiple times, the owners are both extremely friend, and the food is very good

4) you are blaming them for having a PR campaign before opening a business? oh my gosh!! they built a buzz around a business so that they would be busy? try and make money? pay back investors? wow that is the most absurd idea ever...oh wait a minute...that sounds like a really good business strategy

Anonymous said...

Orchestrated?? Hell ya... It's the biscuit version of the Miley Cyrus marketing machine. The blogesphere, general media and this group of ever illustrious commenters have all been sucked in and bwerqed!

9:50 am said...

'Is there anywhere else in the neighborhood that has good biscuits?'

Cheeky's in the LES. Without the pretense.

And of course a pro 7-11 fashionista would love this place, the types who have a sense of entitlement and lack of empathy. The ones who are attracted to the consistent and/or the gratifying.

Anonymous said...

Fashion By He,

I think where they lost a lot of us was by marketing themselves to the "drunk" crowd as they do in their tagline. Anyone who lives near this place is already tortured by all the drunk people who patronize the local bars and we don't take kindly to a business that wants to serve them and plans to stay open 24 hours a day to do so. Not cool. Not respectful. They can act like nice guys all they want but they are not community minded. They are out to take advantage of a situation hurting local residents and potentially making it worse if their plan to stay open 24 hours ever happens.

A little while ago I said...

9:24, you're onto something here. Click the New York Post link and look at the people standing outside the restaurant in the photo. That blonde girl is a model doing her classic modely knee bend. She and her very good-looking friends are taking ever so long to decide what to order. Hah! YES! You are so right. It's all a hoax!

Jess said...

'Is there anywhere else in the neighborhood that has good biscuits?'

Yes! As a born and raised Southerner (Tennessee with time in NC and Louisiana), I can definitively state that the biscuits at Bobwhite Supper Counter on Ave C are the epitome of perfect southern style biscuits. Their fried chicken is also fantastic.

Unknown said...

@anon ... 24 hours and serving drunk people seems like a grand plan...i think at this point, staying open 7 days during the mornings would be a goal, i think 24 hour service is a ways away

and you can blame them for serving drunk people, but if there is a market someone is going to fill it, if not these biscuit guys, someone else, you may like less (7/11, etc)

Anonymous said...

Cabin doors are closed, headed toward the runway and I can still get my EVGrieve fix, today topped off with sweet dose of bisquick. Thanks FAA and thanks Grieve!

Anonymous said...

@9.50... Biscuits and Gravy at Cardinal on East 4th. Mmmmmm!

JAZ said...

Biscuit in a hoof for the drunken wooo army; Carrie Bradshaw's work is now done.

BT said...

Fashion by He - I blame them for not having an operational store prior to opening. PR campaigns are a good idea. BUT you should have a viable working business as a first priority. You need some "THERE THERE" first.

Compare this FLUFF to the Mudtruck. When they started they had a great idea and they had ZERO in the way of an organized PR effort. But guess what... they ended up in all the newspapers and on television.. without any PR effort. Why? Because they actually had a real story.

And getting their friends to "stand around" outside... if you live across the street you should video tape it and see if the people stand around or actually order.

Anonymous said...

I am as critical as others here of the "drunk"marketing tagline, surely a tasteless move. However, the meanness towards this place is just extreme. Give the place a chance and let's see how it goes. At least it's something different in the neighborhood, and the owners seem to care about delivering something of quality. Let's be a bit civil to our fellow humans and give some benefit of the doubt.

Best,
- East Villager

Anonymous said...

This is easily the most precious, grandiose, narcissistic, prima donna small business startup I've ever heard of. It's great to have independent businesses in the neighborhood but how can one have any good will towards such a venture. Enough with the publicity blasts, it's getting to be a nuisance.

Anonymous said...

Jess, thanks for the tip. I am going to check out the Bobwhite Supper Counter.

Anonymous said...

I live across the street but my apartment doesn't face the store; I notice the crowds while walking home. If you think I'm gonna stand on Avenue A in the cold filming a bunch of Williamsburgers doing Improvisational Biscuit Theater, you've got another think coming.

I promise to halfheartedly see if the same five people keep popping up in the photos in the eleventy million more articles we're going to see before this place flames out like Superdive. OK?

Ken from Ken's Kitchen said...

Wow, all of the ink and pixels spilled over a freaking biscuit restaurant that hasn't even really opened yet. These guys may be only so-so at generating biscuits, but they can sure know how to generate bullshit.

Anonymous said...

Christ! The Voice has an interview with these guys today too!

My favorite part:

Oh, and about that "Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner/Drunk" tagline: "It's meant to be tongue-in-cheek," says Price. "To us, it's a playful and frank statement about the East Village and about 24 hours."

Anonymous said...

That tagline is not meant to be tongue-in-cheek. They are catering to the people who frequent the bars all around them and hoping to cash in. It's pathetic. There are a number of businesses that do fine without marketing to the drunken idiots. Look at places like Tompkins Square Bagels. They serve the residents and everyone loves them and their business and their positive impact on the neighborhood.

BT said...



"If you think I'm gonna stand on Avenue A in the cold filming a bunch of Williamsburgers doing Improvisational Biscuit Theater, you've got another think coming."

hahaha. Ok, good point.

Anonymous said...

They are absolutely lying about "drunk" being tongue-in-cheek.

If they were just kidding about it, why would they have said (in their NY Post article), “It’s a food that works for everything: breakfast, lunch, dinner, drunk,” said Tsuna.

I call BS. BS on their hordes of followers (who seem to be made up of model props), BS on their glowing Yelp reviews (the only realistic reviews on their Yelp page are the ones that say their biscuits are less than fine and that service was spotty).

Laura Goggin Photography said...

At this point, I'm convinced this is all performance art. It can't possibly be real.

Anonymous said...

It's not even that good!!! I was still hungry after my $6 ham and egg. I prefer the deli across the street for 3.50 for the same thing!

dwg said...

Any publicity is good publicity so they're doing great at that. As far as they're tongue and cheek approach by including "Drunk" in their advertising- not so cool. As a resident across the street i talked to them about this. They said they were aware of how much of a problem bars and bar crowds are and have been for the block, but they said serving the intoxicated was part of their business plan. So however "light and amusing" they want to pass this off as they're serious about making money and targeting the type of people who have made things pretty miserable for local residents. If you want to serve good food serve good food and let that be your calling card. "Drunk" logo is self serving and antagonistic and duplicitous. We're all for a business like this, but not built on a platform that actively pursues the crowd who've proved so detrimental to quality of life.

dwg said...

dwg again- Also- when I spoke with them they said give us a chance to be good neighbors. I said would you consider removing "Drunk" as part of your logo and advertising? They said no, they couldn't do that. I said, okay, that was your chance. You can't have it both ways.

3:30 pm said...

Good biscuits in the neighborhood:
(In addition to The Cardinal, Bobwhite Supper Counter, and Back Forty that some have already mentioned)
-Clinton St. Baking Company
-Northern Spy Food Co.
-Peels
-Great Jones Cafe
-JoeDoe
-Preserve24
-The Redhead
-Brindle Room
-Ciao For Now

-Popeye's


Good biscuits not in the neighborhood

Manhattan:
-Donut Pub
-The Little Owl
-Market Table
-Jacob's Pickles
-The Dutch
-Bluebell Cafe
-Minetta Tavern
-Bubby's
-The Waverly Inn (free as starters or at the bar as snacks)
-Kitchenette (both Tribeca and Harlem)
-Virgil's Real Barbecue

-Popeye's

Brooklyn:
-Pies-n-Thighs
-Fette Sau
-Brooklyn Southern
-Buttermilk Channel
-Jimmy's Diner
-Diner

Queens:
-Queens Comfort

-Popeye's

BT said...

Do they have their Letter Grade up in the window from the Health Department? Are their any obvious violations? Anybody found any beard hairs in the biscuit yet? (Is that on the menu? "Beard Hair in a Biscuit"?)

Anonymous said...

Wow its a little shocking with all the negative comments here. This is a small startup business not a 7-11, not a Subway or IHOP, this is exactly the kind of business that we want and have started here over the EV's history. Please stop all the bitching. I went in the other day had a sandwich and a plain biscuit and unfortunately both were fantastic so there goes my healthy diet. So the guys look like hipster, so fucking what would you prefer neo-punks 35 years too late, or hippies from the late 60's?

marjorie said...

"Improvisational Biscuit Theater"!

great list, 3:30 PM, thank you!

Anonymous said...

My only Question is:
When they are running 24/7 who is going to clean up the barfed up biscuits that DRUNK ate at 3am on the corner of 12th & A?

Anonymous said...

DWG, who posted at 3:16 p.m., your encounter with the guys depressed me. I can't believe they don't care about the residents and what we have to deal with because of all the drunkards. I rarely get a good night's sleep because of all them and it is distressing to see new businesses coming in trying to make money off of them knowing how horrible they make life for the local residents. There is no need to encourage the drunks and that's what these guys are doing by marketing to them and hoping to make them their client base. I wish they had some empathy and cared about running a good business and being good neighbors. They would have been welcomed with open arms if they had taken a different approach and created a more sustainable business they could feel good about.

Anonymous said...

Just because something is a startup business doesn't make it good. Stop being naive.

Empire Biscuit should really take a page from the Num Pang guys.

http://www.grubstreet.com/2013/11/num-pang-expansion-details-interview.html

Low-key, humble, extremely hardworking ... and guess what, they actually go out of their way to make things vegetarians like, not just toss 'em one biscuit and squeal "We love you too!!!"

Anonymous said...

They're not a local business. One lives in Williamsburg - surprise - the other lives on someone's couch around the corner. Frauds.

Anonymous said...

Indeed a great list... I forgot about Northern Spy... Pricey biscuits, but awesome.

Anonymous said...

Tortured duck butter. Sadists.

moe said...

Does the department of health make that guy wear some sort of facial net to keep all that beard hair out of the food? They sure do hassle the regular deli guys about wearing those ridiculous surgical gloves and have bald guys wearing hairnets, does this guy have a special dispensation?

Anonymous said...

i don't get this place as a supposed'destination'. the urban/suburban counter 'concept'is so unappealing. Idiots who stand in line, because they think they're suppose to stand in line- that's their target customer, along with the drunks.
Bobwhite counter on ave C is great btw. could eat there every day.

JAZ said...

Great list. I can only vouch for Great Jones Cafe and Kitchenette in terms of biscuits, but they are both great, with Great Jones' biscuits being a bit better of the 2.

and @ anon 5:07 - we both know these guys would never take a page from Num Pang when it comes to being humble and low-key; a desperate plea for personal attention and feeding off of the drunken wooo army seem to be higher on their list of priorities than providing a net positive to the neighborhood they've chosen to operate out of.

Anonymous said...

Have any of you thought that drunks roam the streets yelling from 12-3 am on weekends for the most part, having these drunks indoors wolfing down some biscuits with greasy bacon is better than having them howling into the night? Time will tell if this part of the "business plan" will be successful my guess is it will not be worth the trouble to stay open 24/7 and they will adjust the shops hours accordingly.

Anonymous said...

9:40, Empire Biscuit can hold about 10 non-drunks at a time. Even adjusting the capacity for drunk people less concerned with personal space, we're talking a short-term holding pen for 15 people tops. None of whom will decide mid-biscuit to go out on the street and yell, I'm sure, and to say nothing of drunks being giant litterbugs.

I do agree with you that they're probably going to give up on the 24/7 plan. There's just no need. If they do wind up successful, first I will eat my hat, perhaps on a tasty homemade biscuit. Then I will expect them to be open to something like 1 a.m., with Fridays/Saturdays and Sundays perhaps open until 3 or 4 a.m.

I kinda can't believe that the Post mentioned two people dropping biscuits on the floor and eating them, and then centered the story around it. The vibe of that piece is not "So delicious you'll eat them off the floor!" so much as "EB patrons are kinda clumsy, and gross."

Anonymous said...

so much outsized, sanctimonious hate for a freaking biscuit shop...so much petty judgmental posing about a couple of awkward entrepreneurs stumbling with the image of their endeavor.

I thought the "drunk" tagline was really stupid too and was hesitant to patronize them, but this parade of intolerance masquerading as civic mindedness is motivating me to make it a regular stop now.

The snobby, grasping attempts to be more authentically "East Village" than thou is far more annoying than a couple guys trying to start a hipster biscuit shop.

Give it a rest. These are independent business owners trying, however hamfistedly, to create a local business. However inelegant or "inauthentic" you find it, it beats the hell out of chain stores.

If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Anonymous said...

November 13, 2013, 2:02 PM must be the PR or one of the "adviser" in their team of advisers.

Anonymous said...

with all this demand , it's time to raise the prices!

Anonymous said...

Hey, 2:02 - Don't yuck our yums!

Anonymous said...

Amen, Anon 2:02.
Like them, don't like them, agree with them, don't - no one's making you eat there! Jesus Christ - the out-pour on this blog of DISGUST and HATRED should be spent on something much more insidious than hipsters opening a biscuit shop.

Anonymous said...

2:02 and 3:14: Get a sense of humor.

Anonymous said...

@ 2:02 reading through these comments.. I think it's downright hilarious that anyone who is not offended and outraged at the existence of a damn biscuit shop and says so somehow must be a paid member of one of the most powerful and sophisticated PR campaigns in the US. It's just unacceptable that people might actually be excited about this place.. or more likely, not really give a s**t one way or the other. People, we did land on the moon. 9/11 was not an inside job. If anyone is holding puppet strings it's certainly not the biscuit boyz.. Turn your outrage to something that actually matters. You sound ridiculous. Get off my lawn!

Giovanni said...

After doing careful research on Empire Biscuit's ridiculously over-the-top media coverage (aka Operation Lardlove) I have concluded that these are the most likely secret puppet-masters behind the Empire Biscuit Improvisational Theatre PR Blitz:

1) Oprah
2) The Trilateral Commission
3) Opus Dei
4) Edward Snowden
5) The Koch Brothers
6) Paula Deen
7) Pepsi
8) The Tea Party
9) Banksy

Or the answer could be what that every urban hillbilly checks off on the answer sheet when he doesn't have a clue:

10) All Of The Above

This Will End In Beers

Anonymous said...


This is a chain store wanna be

Anonymous said...

I see the biscuit ladies are out to defend their boys. Now you know what it feels like to be offended. Narcissists don't take responsibility for their failures and can't stand criticism. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Anonymous said...

@7:48 ooooh snap, you're really sticking it to them. Keep up the good work!

Anonymous said...

Would you like your biscuits with soreness and bruised ego with it? $13.75. Don't forget the tip. Next!

Anonymous said...

Oooh Burn! Damn!

Anonymous said...

yup, marketing trend, getting the people to line up for food
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/nov/13/jay-rayner-queue-for-hamburger?commentpage=1

A little while ago I said...

Indeed, 10PM. Like I wrote in an earlier comment, the blonde in the larger NY Post article photo looks like a model pretending, along with her handsome 'buddies', to be oh-so-engrossed in their menu as they stand outside. Bogus!!

The Empire's new clothes are already being revealed as subpar in the legitimate Yelp reviews. The reviewers that give this place 5 stars have only one review to their names (Empire Biscuits).

The hype is a clear sham and we as neighbors aren't going to fall for it.

Anonymous said...

Easy, folks... These guys' exaggerated PR attempts also rub me the wrong way, but there's no need for this much hate. Yeah, the PR is ridiculous, but I find it hard to blame them. It is hard to start a business, especially with rents as high as in the EV. I sure have seen many promising little businesses go down fast: the little coffee shop on 6th btw A & B, and now the new coffee place on 5th btw A & B looks like it won't last, and same with the non-chain froyo spot on Ave A and 5th... It's hard to pay these ridiculous rents, so I'm hoping they do OK and stop renting people to stand in front of their storefront soon.

Also, if drunks get some food while getting drunk, their peak alcohol concentration will be reduced, allowing them to be less drunk and hopefully wreak less havoc on our neighborhood. So three cheers for feeding the drunks :-)

Anonymous said...

Lest anyone forget what started the love affair between EVG commenters and EB, do revisit this original post. Some fairly innocuous comments about their kickstarter campaign and the "drunk" tagline led them (and their people) to call other commenters "very aggressive, cynical and mean-spirited people" and "grumpy, jaded and cynical." (Which may be true in some cases, but maybe keep it to yourselves?) Anyway, that's when things took off...

JAZ said...

@ anon 11:28pm- I do agree with some of what you are saying. The problem is, these guys are looking to enhance the neighborhood as an attractive destination to come and get drunk in by offering a 24 hour biscuit shop; they are in a way taking a page from the taco truck concept at Union Pool.

Anonymous said...



biscuit lemmings and folks who think this is some kind of grassroots organization.
sigh.

Big Brother said...

Nothing left to talk about.
Hoboken Hoof forever.