Tuesday, November 22, 2016

Report: Mike Pence supporter arrested for alleged racist tirade, pepper-spray attack at 14th Street diner



Two women, who are Chinese-American, were eating early Sunday morning at the Lower East Side Coffee Shop on 14th Street near Avenue A. One of the women, Sally Wen Mao, a Brooklyn-based poet, shared details of the ugly scene that transpired at the diner via Twitter and Facebook on Sunday. (Several EVG readers shared her Facebook post with us.)

Sadly, I am not surprised about what happened — it was only a matter of time before I would experience this shit personally.

Last night around 2AM I was eating in a 14th Street diner, Lower East Side Coffee Shop, with a friend. Just as we were eating, a loud angry man came in, sat in the booth behind ours, and started complaining about Hamilton, how disgusting and "racist" they were to Pence.

Right behind me, he started rambling loudly, complaining about "so-called minorities." It was really hard to be physically near and intolerable to hear that kind of racist bile, so at some point, I said lower your voice, we are just trying to eat. Then we switched seats to the corner.

Inevitably the Trump supporter got aggressive and told us to go back to Tokyo (!), then called us c**** and whores. At which point I wasn't having it with his racism and misogyny — I splashed my water across his face.
He escalated, called the police and said he would have me arrested all the while calling us derogatory slurs. The guy who was working at the diner (presumably the owner) said and did nothing as we couldn't believe the venom we were getting from this angry dangerous man.

The Trump supporter then blockaded the door to prevent us from leaving the diner, trapping us inside for over an hour. We were physically afraid to go near the door for fear of what he would do to us. He was describing me to the police on his phone, saying that he was for sure pressing charges, sickeningly staring at me and making comments about my appearance. We sat with other women who witnessed the whole thing and were horrified (they showed solidarity to us and said that they would support us if the police asked for the story). More racist sexist shit poured out of him, "c*** whores," he wasn't very creative. So I splashed another glass of water on his face.

The police arrived, asking what happened. They took down my ID, said splashing water is not something they can arrest me for. The sad thing is this white man believed so much in the racism of his fellow white man and the system — a system that has already been broken, and he understands this system benefits him without being informed of what he can or cannot charge someone for. He was trying to engage with other white men and the police officers in a "us" versus "them" way. And sadly, playing the role of demure harmless Asian woman worked in getting the cops to dismiss it, and I recognize my privilege. Eventually after over an hour, the cops had to palliate him, he grew more and more angry over why they weren't arresting me, ranting about "men's rights."

UPDATED: A woman who was there with me and witnessed the whole thing told me that after my friend and I left, there was an incident. A Latino man came in with two of his friends as we were waiting for the police to hand us back my ID and sat in the booth we sat in. As we were exiting, he asked us if we were okay, and I told him a very, very brief version of the story ...

What happened next was also extremely upsetting. The woman told me that the man who asked us if we were okay, told the Trump supporter that he would not tolerate racism. Then the Trump guy took out pepper spray and sprayed it directly into the man's face. That man had to go to the emergency room. At that point, the woman was definitely trying to leave, and the Trump supporter pushed her, and the pepper spray got into one of her friend's eyes too.
The Trump supporter was arrested as the police saw what happened.

But a person who demonstrated empathy, who stood up against racism and said he would not tolerate it, had to go to the emergency room. That person was hurt. We are not safe.

Gothamist has an account of the incident here. The woman at the diner who witnessed what happened is a Mic News reporter, and she shared her version of the events here.

Gothamist also has more details about the man's arrest:

Police arrested Frank Camino, 56, at 2:52 a.m. on Sunday. He's since been charged with assault in the second degree and possession of a weapon, specifically pepper spray. According to a criminal complaint, Camino sprayed a man in the face and eyes with a can of pepper spray, causing swelling, redness and pain.

A spokesman for the NYPD confirmed that Camino was also the man who called 911 to report being splashed with water. Prosecutors and police did not provide details on the arguments that promoted both interactions. Camino's attorney did not immediately respond to a request for comment; Camino himself could not be reached.

As for why the diner's staff didn't come to assist the women, a manager there told Gothamist that he "had no idea."

67 comments:

Anonymous said...

Human evolution seems to have ceased its forward march. Fuck all.

KeyFood4Eva said...

I understand why the victim threw water in the racist's face, however, like any encounter with a crazy person (racist or not), it's probably best not to feed the fire, you never know what they are capable of. It does take a lot of resolve to just sit there and listen to his disgusting remarks, but I would rather walk away with my life than engage him and potentially lose it.

Anonymous said...

I have no sympathy for this aggressive asshole and glad he got busted but women please realize if you are in a situation like this, throwing a drink in someone's face is an aggressive act regardless if it is another woman, man, someone your know or a stranger. This action found in just about every "Housewives of...." does not solve anything and can actually makes thing really worse as this story shows.

Anonymous said...

This Frank Camino guy is on the board of the A1 East 10th Street Block Association?? I would demand better representation if that was my block

Anonymous said...

Oh the irony of someone with a last name "Camino" telling others to leave the country.

Anonymous said...

"Men's rights" is as much of a tell as the whole tirade. White males are tired of being reminded we are invisible to the social justice movement. There's a reason we're invisible, of course, as we aren't discriminated against in any way.

Except economically, but, as usual, the tactic is to tell us that it's the fault of "the other". In this guy's case he probably has to pay child support, see: "men's rights", and hasn't gotten laid (for free) unless you count porn since his divorce. He doesn't want to hear about LGBT rights anymore, about black lives mattering, about transgender bathrooms, those issues are between irrelevant and enraging. He's miserable and he's going to be more miserable once the incoming administration crashes the economy through arrogance and incompetence. Which will be Bill Clinton's and Obama's fault on a certain TV network of course.

Watch out everybody, because the post-Obama racist fever sweat is going to start breaking big time very soon.

And everywhere in this country outside the five boroughs that's not pepper spray, it's a gun.

Anonymous said...

Agreed that throwing water in someone's face unless they present an immediate danger was a poor idea. Although, if they do present a danger I'm not sure what throwing water in someone's face will do.

What's with the staff not calling the cops the second this situation pops off?

Also, the two the two women didn't call the cops themselves? Also, no video or audio of this guy doing his thing?

Tenement City said...

keyfood4eva

on the witness's article

"But the man continued his tirade. Frustrated, Mao picked up her plate and went to sit at an empty table away from him, at which point I heard the man say, "They can go as far as they want. They can go back to Tokyo for all I care.""

https://mic.com/articles/160005/i-witnessed-the-hate-and-violence-of-an-emboldened-trump-supporter-in-a-nyc-diner

later after the water incident, according to sally,
"The Trump supporter then blockaded the door to prevent us from leaving the diner, trapping us inside for over an hour."

Anonymous said...

Hoow can this guy have held these women inside the diner for an hour and not be charged with false imprsonment? Anyway he should also be charged with a hate crime for bringing in the woman's race, and charged with stupidity for voting for Trump. This is what we have to deal with now people, and if you think it's not going to get any worse wait until SantaCon when all the drunk Trump douchebags start rampaging through the streets

Anonymous said...

Sounds like they need the tweet tower!

cmarrtyy said...

He was looking for trouble. Why else would he have pepper spray. And people looking for trouble can't be stopped.

dwg said...

There were other choices than throwing water- directly appeal to diner staff, call 911, etc.. But in the heat of a vicious verbal attack out of nowhere hard to tell what any of us would do. One thing's for sure- there's no waiting and giving Trump a chance to prove himself. He's already proven himself by his words to be the kind of person who provokes the kind of response by the angry perpetrator. Trump has opened the floodgates to racism, sexism and hatred.

Anonymous said...

Putting aside this diner has bad food and is almost always empty, it is very disturbing that the staff did nothing as this a-hole insulted these women with extremely vulgar and racist terms that should have immediately got him thrown out.

Not that I needed another reason not to patronize this diner, but now I do.

Anonymous said...

I plan to express my displeasure to the management of this coffe shop re: how they did nothing to de-escalate this situation. And is the perp the same Frank Camino who lives on East 10th? Where does he work? We should complain about his behavior to his employer.

Unknown said...

Shame on the Diner staff for not stepping in at all.

Anonymous said...

Seriously disappointed in so-called New Yorkers after reading this.

What kind of a real man sits and watches this go down. Fuck the guy behind the counter.

Anonymous said...

This guy blocked the door for over an hour and the staff did nothing, not even call the cops?!?! That the manager said he had no idea is BS.

Anonymous said...

You are so lucky that water in the face didn't get you pepper sprayed! That is a VERY strange twist to story.

Anonymous said...

Let's be careful when blaming diner staff for not responding to the incident. Many food service staff are immigrant themselves, don't speak English all that well, and/or are from minority racial/ethnic groups. The staff present at the location may have been vulnerable themselves and thus not able / not sure how to respond. If there was a manager present (was there, at that hour?), I might be more inclined to cast blame, but as is, I will try to withhold judgment on the staff.

Anonymous said...

I just called this restaurant and spoke with a manager. He told me that restaurant staff called the police. I told him that I wish they had but this was not reported in any article about the incident I had seen, quite to the contrary, the attacker himself called 911. People who frequent this restaurant might want to consider also having a conversation with it's management. Any business has the right to refuse service to a customer who bullies other patrons and uses loud racial slurs. I will not give my business to any establishment that tolerates this kind of inappropriate behavior.

Anonymous said...

I don't care how much of an asshole someone is. Don't throw shit at them. You escalated it. Sticks and stones.

Anonymous said...

I'm a little surprised that everyone is taking one side of the story at face value, particularly when there are a lot of things indicating that don't seem kosher.

These women had a big hand in what went on by splashing water in a stranger's face. Twice. And that's what they admit to. What else went on? It sounds as if they were at least as aggressive as he was, and led to HIM calling them cops on THEM. Also, I am having a hard time believing that this guy kept the door blocked for over an hour.

This seems like it could be one of those things where women will do really aggressive things that would get a guy's lights punched out if it were done by a man, and then pin it on the other party if they have any reaction.

Giovanni said...

Try the pepper spray-jack cheese on The Trump Burger..oh sorry, I was thinking about the failed social experiment known as 'Merica. Can you imagine the food fights that would be breaking out now if that place was still open? I have also seen plenty of angry Trump supporters around lately and they all seem like they're trying to pick a fight. So this guy picked on some Asian women thinking he would get away with it, and instead got water splashed on his face and arrested. Hilarious.

Anonymous said...

3:35 PM: Seriously? You condone staff inertia because they might be "vulnerable." Do you think they would ignore someone who refused to pay their bill? I don't think the police check your immigration status when you report a crime. That being said, I agree throwing water at this nut TWICE was not smart. She keeps referring to him as Trump supporter, as if that is his defining characteristic. Maybe NUTJOB would be more accurate.

Anonymous said...

The guy from the block association?!? If so he lives on 10th st just west of the park. Here's guessing he feels like a total idiot right now as his name's gonna be in the paper.

That said, call the cops don't throw water at a raving racist angry white male. And now that it's over it's over. Let him do his minimal community service for the pepper spray and be as forgotten as possible.

Anonymous said...

Unacceptable behavior cannot be tolerated any time any place. Lock them up.

Anonymous said...

Imagine how much angrier these white males would be if Trump had lost. This craziness has been going on since 1992 and got ratcheted up in 2010.
We're about to find out how much support they are going to get from the Federal Government. Good work, liberals.

Anonymous said...

@4:35
The attacker in this instance is whoever threw water.

Anonymous said...

Waiters aren't paid enough to get involved in fights. They're barely paid enough to bring food to the table.

Gojira said...

WTF? I'll be boycotting this place from now on.

Anonymous said...

After years of political correctness being the norm Trump has opened the portal to the underbelly of half of America, unleashing their buried bigotry. This is just the beginning.

Anonymous said...

I was in a diner tonight and a bunch of NYU students were loudly discussing the electon. Every table near them was giving them the stink eye, which they just ignored. They seemed to be against Trump, but they also hated Hillary. They were also against liberals who won't tolerate misogyny, bigotry and racism, as if standing up to bigotry is just another form of bigotry or intolerance. Then they discussed their favorite porn stars, and how the same guy seems to be in all of the clips. I have never heard such a confused and misinformed bunch of people discuss politics in my life. I can see why fights are breaking out. They also cursed like sailors. Nice job, NYU, no wonder those letters in your name stand for "Now You're Unemployed."

Anonymous said...

@7:21 PM wins for best comment this thread! A needed good laugh.

Anonymous said...

Instead of attacking him a s a Trump Supporter, why not mark it down as the rantings and actions of a very disturbed man. I have had many encounters with angry black people. Am I supposed to associate that with Louis Farrakhan or any other vitriolic Black leader'? This man is clearly unhinged and leave it at that. For the record i HATE teh Trump and all he stands for.

Greg Masters said...

Awful. But, thank you, EVG, for posting this.

Anonymous said...

That is rich... how quickly my fellow Italian Americans have forgotten the insane bigotry our parents and grandparents endured.
Shame on that guy. And men's rights??? Freud would have a field day.

I like this diner -- but I expect this kind of crap behavior anywhere these days.

dwg said...

Surprising that the women are seen as the instigators and perpetrators for throwing glasses of water. Yeah, it's always the women. They attack helpless men and get away with it, always have. Are kidding me? Thank you Mr. Trump for letting the misogynist light shine bright.

Anonymous said...

The Democrats spent the last six months whipping people into a fear hysteria, so now that Trump is president, every white guy is going to be seen as a racist, or fascist, and either reviled or attacked. We should probably expect to hear more stories like this in the future.

Anonymous said...

No one is blaming the women as instigators. They are being blamed for pouring oil on the fire.

Anonymous said...

807pn. I agree. Calling them c**ts and wh**es, he deserved water in his face Suggesting the women are the instigators is just more misogyny.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry that this happened to these women and the other diners. The man arrested sounds like something was going to eventually make him snap. I'm also very glad that Clinton was not elected.

Anonymous said...

I am very sorry for the aggravation and vitriol the women went through. I know. I am a Chinese-American, but does that matter? I have been mugged, robbed, assaulted at knifepoint literally at my doorstep and until evicted, lived in the East Village for 24 years. I don't think my race had anything to do with these crimes. I was cognizant but still physically attacked.

I am also saddened the brave person who stood up to this racism was harmed.

I can't say what I would have done. But I will say thank you again Grieve for putting up all stories as they happen.

A fan xx

Anonymous said...

First let me say I'm 3/4ths Italian descent. I'm bracing for some people to be offended by this but there's a large Italian-American pro-Trump contingent in this city like this as shole. If you look at the parts of the city which voted mostly Trump you will see they're neighborhoods with large Italian-American populations: Bay Ridge, Bensonhurst, Howard Beach, County Club, and Throggs Neck. Staten Island voted mostly Trump and has a big Italian-American population. That is no coincidence.

Point is the biggest native New York group of Trump supporters are Italian-Americans and it's no surprise as the ones in the above neighborhoods and SI have long histories of racial, ethnic, and religious intolerance. It's a movie but look at Summer Of Sam. Guys like that DEFINITELY existed in Country Club and Throggs Neck, Bronx, and all over the city back in '77. Nothing much has changed among many of them. Many live insular lives of comfort (live at home rent-free, family business job etc.) where they barely/rarely/never have to interact with "the other." And this is coming from someone who has been around and dealt with people like this most of my life. There's a video on YT of a guy who sounds like an IA going off on people who don't support Trump. Today I saw a video of an IA in a car yelling about how Trump won - IA accent. Now this guy.

I'm not saying all IAs in the city, but alot. It's embarrassing and makes me not want to engage in a conversation with people with that classic voice.

Anonymous said...

I know there are problems with ABSOs (AntiSocial Behavior Order), the ticket process that's used in the US for dealing with things like this but . . . I think, overall, they are a good idea and I wish we had them here. Yes, they are subject to misuse and, yes, they differ community to community. However, one thing they do brilliantly is put the onus on the perpetrator and generally remove the victim from the process. And, they escalate in reasonable ways. Do some really stupid shit in a diner and you get a ticket. Do it twice and you see a counselor. Do it three times and you are banned from the diner and the surrounding area. It's not exactly a punishment--as, say, going to jail or getting a heavy fine or losing your job might be in the US--it's an attempt to negotiate, well, antisocial behavior, as defined by the local community and stop it. ABSOs are not, as a rule, criminal, they are civil orders and, by most accounts, they work fairly well. There would, I suspect, be all kinds of legal problems with local implementation of them in the US but I think NYC could use something along the lines of ABSOs. Yup, crusties would get hit with ABSOs, and, yes, drunk frat kids in East Village bars would get ticketed, but also crazy racist jerks would get ticketed and end up getting medical help. . .and, sadly, I think we are going to see more events like the one discussed in this post. (Here's a page on how AntiSocial Behavior Orders work in Scotland: http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/neighbourhood_issues/antisocial_behaviour/antisocial_behaviour_orders.)

Anonymous said...

I can not believe that the manager of the diner did nothing and claimed he did not know what was happening, perhaps East villagers should boycott this place.

The hottest place in hell, are reserved for those who in a time of moral crisis maintain their neutrality. There comes a time when silence is betrayal. - Dante

Anonymous said...

Once these women took it physical by tossing water - twice- vs a non-contact verbal rant? THEY could have also been charged w/ assault. they are lucky this nut didnt have a gun.
How do they know this guy was a Trump supporter? When were the police called? So they didnt arrive until an hour after 911 was dialed? How did the guy keep them inside that long if police came? Why no video?
During the BLM protests couple yrs back, I was very viciously verbally attacked on 14th St bus by some black guy who sat next to me. Everyone else on board was a minority. One young man eventually stood up to the bully as I refused to respond. Bus driver did nothing. We got off @ Ave B. The race war the Elite/media are pimping ensures we fight each other, instead of the real perps- THEM. Sad we cant wake up

Anonymous said...

Wow sorry for all who had to go though that and our Presidant elect is not in office yet Sad times are upon us.

Anonymous said...

There are a lot of Emotionally Disturbed People walking around the East Village schizophrenic homeless screaming down blocks as they travel with no direction. Confrontation with EDP's can lead to violent outcomes these women were foolish in their actions they endangered their own safety and perhaps others in the diner by their actions. Police have had dangerous encounters with EDP's sometimes resulting in fatalities and they are trained. The expressions they utter are not rational just part of a sick mind ranting. There is one always walking down Ave C when he gets in front of the German Beer garden on 7th street starts screaming Nazi's and he was a Vietnam Vet he is in his middle forties maybe when he was sane he may have seen Miss Saigon on Broadway. Point is unless you are trained to deal with this steer clear do not provoke them...outcomes can be as unpredictable as a deranged mind.

Anonymous said...

Hmm... Being racist, loud, misogynistic, and obnoxious are not crimes. We live in a crowded city and must get used to hearing all kinds of offensive stuff (it is part of the culture of a free country). I hear all kinds of crap from ALL kinds of people -- including words I personally find very offensive. I don't throw water in anyone's face. If I did I would expect to be arrested. We are reading one side of the story. But the side we are reading sounds pretty guilty to me. Yeah the guy lost his mind too and escalated to the point of also being guilty. But the real trouble starts from the women. And yes, throwing a drink in a stranger's face should be considered assault.

Anonymous said...

It's a movie but look at Summer Of Sam. Guys like that DEFINITELY existed in Country Club and Throggs Neck, Bronx, and all over the city back in '77.

This is adorable. 11:11 pm, you realize that Son of Sam aka David Berkowitz was a real person, and he was only half-Italian, but you otherwise are not wrong about certain groups of people in our boroughs, I feel largely insulated from Trump culture here in NYC but they are out there.

Anonymous said...

@4:34 am. Yeah so all manner of insults are ok. You have no idea what women endure every day.

equilibrist said...

I hope these women reported this incident to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which is keeping a database of hate/bias incidents that have occurred since the election.

Anonymous said...

Typical comments from venemous people on both sides who were not there. Try talking about something you know something about for a change people instead of spewing more hate in comments like those posted here.

Anonymous said...

@4:34AM Harassment is a crime. Assault is a crime. False imprisonment is a crime. This guy didn't just say something, he did something, and what he did was illegal. This guy was lashing out with them, threatening them, taunting them. The fact that they weren't arrested for throwing the water on him tells me everything I need to know about who was in the right in the situation. Believe me when he's in jail this guy is going to have a lot more than water thrown in his face.

Giovanni said...

People love to complain about Muslims and Hispanics and other minority groups not assimilating into society. But you know who never assimilated into society? A lot of Italians, mainly the less educated one. I grew up with Italians and I speak from experience. Some of them are wonderful people and their food and love of family is among the best. But a lot of them are very uneducated and closed-minded people. In Italian-American society there is a ton of patriotism wrapped up and racism wrapped up in Italian pride and you almost can't tell those things apart. They remain this way because they left the city in the 60s and 70s and self-segregated into neighborhoods and towns on Long Island, Brooklyn, Staten Island and New Jersey. They are so inbred at this point there's no getting through to them. And when you look at the map of how people voted those areas voted for Trump overwhelmingly.

So it's no surprise that this guy was an Italian-American with the same kind of regressive attitudes. And these people are not economically disadvantaged. They own plenty of family run businesses, especially restaurants, fashion, automobile and construction businesses. They have money. And yet they still feel like they are the victims. It's that kind of ignoranance that candidate Trump the nationalist exploited, and that President-Elect Trump the kleptocrat is running away from now that he doesn't need them anymore.

Donald Trump is just like another famous Italian billionaire kleptocrat named Silvio Berlusconi, who also fanned the flames of anti-Muslim and ant-immigrant sentiment to become Prme Minister of Italy. He then proceeded to enrich himself while chasing teenage prostitutes and wrecking the economy, and he fought endlessly with the media, suing them and getting them fired, to the delight of the masses, who now have massive unemployment around 13%, huge national debt, endless recessions, massive corruption and bribery scandals, with the 1% getting ever richer. As a result, Italy is dragging the European economy down with it, much like Greece has, only worse since Italy's economy is the third largest in the EU. That's exactly the kind of result what we can expect from Trump, so these crazy Trump lunatics need to pay attention to who is really using them instaed of ranting and raving at innocent people. Berlusconi didnt make Italy great again, and Trump looks like he will do the same thing to our country.

Anonymous said...

Hey 7:33pm I wasn't talking about David Berkowitz aka "Son Of Sam" who killed most of or I think all his victims in Queens and was caught in front of his apartment building in Yonkers, NY, you missed my point which was there are alot of Italian-American guys like the ones in the movie Summer Of Sam out there in real life today almost four decades after the SOS: racist, bigoted, xenophobic, insular, etc. Try reading so you won't type a smarmy comment about what has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. So DB was half-Italian, okay...your point?

Anonymous said...

10:32AM, but that *is* what people know most about, the silly little opinions that they think are their own, which they stew in all day in their own private little Hell spas, and woe to you if you're not spewing their own petty brand of nonsense.

Some unhinged dude hitched his issues to the outrage train on the tracks of least resistance and his targets escalated the harassment and turned it into an assault (thankfully her privilege saved her from the consequences of that) and some guy got pepper-sprayed and now it's become a great platform for the usual band of pontificating know-nothings.

At least cats are still awesome. I'm always amazed at how well they all get along in the window at Ollie's.

Anonymous said...

Giovanni - 11:11pm here. You hit the nail on the head. You have 35 year old Italian American guys who still live at home with their mother or parents, rent-free, usually grocery expenses free, too so all they have to pay for is clothes, haircuts, pizza, dinners out, etc. and they work for their father and/or uncle making 15 or more an hour cash off the books. They have friends' places to !@#$ women at so the women don't know they still live at home, or they date women who still live at home, too, thus can't say shi t about them still living at home (although a 35 year old woman gets sh it for living at home with the parents way less than a 35 year old man.) They're marginal in that they'd most likely be homeless and jobless without the parents, but they are actually in comfortable situations and will be their entire lives when you consider they'll inherit their parents' more often than not fully paid up houses bought by Grandpa in 1953 for 20K which are now worth bare minimum 500K.

They don't know or wanna know who isn't like them.


chris flash said...

HOW THE FUCK can the diner manager refuse to intervene, either telling Camino to LEAVE or to at least call 911 if he was too afraid to speak up? Would he have hesitated to call cops or grab someone refusing to pay for his meal??

HOW THE FUCK can other customers just sat there, not saying or doing ANYthing about Camino, as if they're watching a reality tv show? Has the city been reduced to a bunch of frightened rabbits, waiting for someone ELSE to do SOMEthing??

That big tough Camino, armed with his pepper spray just in case someone had the nerve to stand up to him was lucky that the Asian woman wasn't armed. He was also lucky that he only got splashed with water. He deserves a lot WORSE.

Meanwhile, a BOYCOTT of this shitty diner is in order....

Anonymous said...

@9:42 AM: Yes, all manners of insult are okay (and in this case -- according to the story we have so far -- it began with an overheard conversation which was perceived as offensive, not necessarily even an insult). It is in the constitution. Of course, threats are not okay. And it goes without saying that attacks are not okay (including throwing drinks in people's faces). The offensive guy sounds like a jerk (again according to the story we have so far), but I can understand his frustration when the cops wouldn't act against the water thrower.

And what's with all the anti-Italian American postings? Imagine if those posts were about African Americans? I would be (and am) upset in either case. It's just plain ugly prejudice. Nasty.

It's scary when the so called "liberal" side of the debate seems to have completely abandoned classical liberalism. Try to remember when the ACLU defended the Skokie Nazis? Why did they do that?

Anonymous said...

Re: Anon 1:49 PM
Almost every sentence in your post could be parsed as a stereotype of Italian-Americans. Same with a good deal of what Giovanni wrote. And the fact that he identifies as an Italian-American doesn't make his observations more valid. This thread has certainly morphed beyond the original posting of an angry Trumpista being rude to two Asian-American women. Every sort of ethnic stereotyping is coming forth--all within the boundary of trying to explain who this man is and why he did what he did. The insulting national stereotypes are just as disturbing as the original event.

Giovanni said...

@1:49 PM. The sad thing is these guys parents did them no favors by insulating them from the real world, so the minute they come in contact with anything that doesn't compute in thier little brains they explode. As for those inheritances, they will mostly lose it all in Vegas or in divorce court. They don't know it yet but they are a species that's about to be extinct. On the other hand, the parents that made sure their kids got a good education have kids that are out in the world running businesses and have no problem with where America is headed. It''s called evolution, and anyone who tries to resist it gets run over. Trum skids are somewhere in the middle, which is why they are letting Jared Kushner (whose father had to give a big donations to Harvard and NYU to get his kids with their low grades in) figure out how daddy Trump is supposed to run the country. This is going to be beyond interesting.

cmarrtyy said...

Does anybody realize that Camino is Spanish for road. Why does everybody assume he is Italian. Is it more convenient to stereotyping that he be an Italian? In fact what difference does it make if he is Spanish, for that matter.

Anonymous said...

2:22 and 2:42 I am NOT Italian-American and agree with you those rantings shouldn't have been posted. EVG wouldnt have allowed any other ethnic group to be attacked in this way (nor should they be).

Anonymous said...

Now we have Giovanni (4:46) psychoanalyzing the parents and informing us, with no information at all, what they did and did not do in the formative years of this guy. If this stuff were posted on Facebook as a news story, there would be outrage about posting fake stories. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts. Why not hold off on ethnic and psychological analysis until you know a few facts Giovanni--or does because you self-identify as Italian-American make your pronouncements truths? The ethnic slurs that have developed on this thread show that whatever the sentiments that started this event were, they are not far from the surface in a lot of people who post here. In this case against Italian-Americans.

Anonymous said...

The comments about Italian-American men got me thinking about the role of stereotypes in my own thinking. It's true that that some of these comments if made about other groups would not be acceptable in polite society. But that doesn't mean that people are not thinking that way. You start with an observation or experience or statistic, and what's "true" or somewhat accurate of 5% or 10% or 20% of the group becomes the overwhelming truth in our minds. We all do it--well I know I do it--and the comments here have given us a useful peek behind the curtains.

Luis Lopez said...

No but the establishment has the obligation to provide
some level of safety and order to it's patrons.